Mixer For Reel To Reel

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jetmonkey

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hey guys, really need advice on getting a mixer for my tascam tsr-8. in general i'm torn between an older board like a tascam m312 or even an m208 and between the newer boards like a mackie onyx or A&H mixwizard. any significant differences beyond 'old=warm' that immediately jump out?

my two main concerns are sound and connectivity.

i'm wondering if there are any sound advantages in using a newer $1000 and under price-range board: like extra head room and a clearer high end.

just learning about all this stuff, but haven't there been wothwhile advances in technology over the last 15 years!?
 
Mackie

Check out the Mackie 1604 and the 1402. Both are analog boards...nice headroom and easy to use. I recommend the Mackie boards. :)
 
I would reccomend a soundcraft M8 as a newer board selection. It's cheaper than the Allen and Heath and sounds just as good in my opinion!
 
I use an Allen & Heath MixWizard with a TSR8. A 20:8:2 (discontinued), to be specific.

My impression is that the relatively new <$1000 boards are better than their predecessors in features, routing options, preamp quality and quality of electronics generally. But I could be wrong.

By "their predecessors," I obviously don't mean the big, custom or partly-custom consoles that "real" recording studios used, but the little ones made for home recordists. Until the '90s or so, they were pretty little and light on features. There was a big gap between the full-on recording mixers and the home studio mixers.

Of course, that gap was filled with another whole set of mixers, designed for live sound, which were built to be sold at a range of price points in between. Those kind of transmogrified and cross-bred with the little home recording mixers and turned into this newish category that includes the Mackies, the Mixwizards, Soundcrafts etc.

Or so it appears to me.
 
thanks for the advice! so... nobody's tempted by the older boards? as in, since we're all presumably charmed by masochistically using tape, an older board doesn't carry the same allure? i'm currently graduating from getting all giggly by the idea of looking at bouncing vu meters...so i'm making progress.

in the studio, does anybody conciously factor in the presumably 'cleaner' sound of a newer board, complimenting the thicker, warmer sound of the tape?
 
ehh im all about old tascam boards.....perfect complement to tape
 
Bigsnake00 said:
ehh im all about old tascam boards.....perfect complement to tape

actually looking at a 320 now. are you just a purist about it, or are there specific qualities about your setup that you don't think you could replicate with newer gear?
 
jetmonkey said:
i'm torn between an older board like a tascam m312 or even an m208 and between the newer boards like a mackie onyx or A&H mixwizard

I personally would only look into getting an older board such as the excellent TASCAM M300 series and even the M200 series. I'm a big fan of 80's TASCAM.
 
jetmonkey said:
actually looking at a 320 now. are you just a purist about it, or are there specific qualities about your setup that you don't think you could replicate with newer gear?

There is no new gear that can match the built quality, features and price point of a used M320, as per your example.
 
cjacek said:
There is no new gear that can match the built quality, features and price point of a used M320, as per your example.


what are the big quality issues that come to mind for you? kinda gets to the heart of my post... and what's a decent price for an m320 anyway. i've read some older threads that say around $300, but i've been getting $500-$1000 lately. the latter price being for an untouched brand new one supposedly.
 
jetmonkey said:
what are the big quality issues that come to mind for you? kinda gets to the heart of my post... and what's a decent price for an m320 anyway. i've read some older threads that say around $300, but i've been getting $500-$1000 lately. the latter price being for an untouched brand new one supposedly.

I'm sure others will chime in as well but for me the selling points are: great, big, full "juicy" sound with an excellent frequency response that actually sounds natural, magnificent mixer section with a great EQ, long 100mm smoooth faders, cool vu meters, shit load of connectivity at the back, very rigid construction inside and out. Note that if the 300 series mixer has a "B" at the end of it then that's an improvement over the non "B" versions which includes phantom power on all channels. This for example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-TASCA...ryZ23785QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

For the asking price of $1000 is still a very good deal (B version) and I'd get it over any new board made today. If you decide to buy it, either pick it up in person or have the seller crate the mixer, just make a strong wooden crate and place the entire box with the mixer inside it. It would have to go freight and it will be more costly (but safe). Otherwise I don't like the chances of the mixer getting to you in one piece.
 
coincidentally that's the one i was talking about. small (ebay) world eh? good advice on the crating and thanks for explaining the 'B' thing, i knew it was the upgrade, but didn't know how so.

pretty much looking at that beast, a soundcraft m12 and an A&H mixwizard thus far.
 
I would go with the a&H The older tascam stuff is good, well built, the soundcraft does not have dual sweepable mids, the headroom is great on the A&H. The Mackie stuff does not like to go above unity in any way shape or form, not that you should be in the practice of doing such. I actually use a older tascam and have had many of their offerings over the past 20 years, But I also have A&H and soundcraft mxers as well. I also have the onyx. I found the A&H to be the choice mixer, I just don't feel like buying $2000.00 worth of cabling to put anything different in the control room right now.
 
I have a TSR-8 paired with a TASCAM M-216. I bought the board new around 1990 and it’s still going strong – never had an issue.

In my 25 years of doing this I’ve seen a general decline in build quality, along with a decline in consumer savvy. Part of it is the outsourcing to China factor… dismal quality control.

Manufacturers appear to have realized how undiscriminating much of their consumer base is, and want to see just how low they can go… what they can get away with. A nicer way to look at it (giving manufacturers the benefit of the doubt) I would say they are obliging a new class of home recordists with rather low expectations.

The gap between “Pro”and Semi-pro, or “Prosumer” is much greater than 20 years ago. There is clearly a whole new level or two below the old lowest level. There are more toy-like products available than in time past. Things are being produced for every income level – nearly everyone can afford something. One just has to be aware that some products shouldn’t even be on your radar… if you’re serious, even if they are in the Musicians Friend catalog. ;)

A few of the new Chinese made A&H, Mackie and Behringer boards appear to be made from the same general chassis – just branded differently.

The thing about the 80’s is that it was a time when the home/project studio niche was developing, so manufacturers were competing with quality in mind. Once the industry was well established, manufacturers had to cut corners to compete in a market inundated with low cost choices.

Not all old boards are to be preferred though just because they’re old. Companies like TASCAM had their share of hits and misses, in the 80’s and 90’s.

I can highly recommend the TASCAM M-300 and M-200 series, as well as the M-2600 MKII. In fact, TASCAM recommended the M-200 series for use with the TSR-8 in product literature of the time. As a rule, I would choose an old Studiomaster or TASCAM over any Made in China anything, but there are exceptions.

Most old boards can be improved with newer op-amps that weren’t available when they were made, and other mods. That’s another consideration… do you like hacking and upgrading? If you do, something like the M-200 series are easy to work on. By the way, the headroom on those boards is phenomenal.

There are good boards being made, but most worth considering are in a higher cost bracket than their older counterparts… and of course now you can buy the old boards for a song on eBay.

Now that I’ve pissed off every music store salesman on the forum, I’ll leave it there. :D

Good hunting,
~Tim :)
 
That's a nice find, in that you're unlikely ever to come across a brand new one.

For comparison:
A&H 20:8:2 was a goodly amount cheaper, used.
That particular A&H has, I think, more inputs and routing than the 312:
- 8 bus (not just 4)
- 8 mono channel strips, all with phantom power
- 6 stereo channel strips (8 mono + 6 stereo = the "20" in the name)
- 8 Separate tape returns (for cue when tracking; can be add'l returns when mixing, so you actually get 28 channels at mixdown)
- Switch tape from the tape returns to the main channel strips globally with a single "mixdown" button, or channel-by-channel with a single button
- 6 aux sends (2 pre-fader, 2 post and 2 switchable)
- Inserts on each mono channel and on the main L/R mix
- 2 master two-track sends, separate monitor out
- 2 two-track returns
- Set of switches to select monitor = main mix, either two-track return, various aux sends
- Headphones can be switched from monitor to cue mix
- Talkback with slate
Etc.
All told, there are over 70 jacks on the thing.

It has 100mm faders on all 14 channel strips
High and low shelf EQs on all 14 channel strips
Two sweepable mids on each mono channel strip

Oh, yeah, and it's made in England.
 
good stuff beck. thanks. (anybody disagree...?) makes sense with the production path of most mehanical things though.

looking at an m208 now on some for sale post across the country for $90 just to get something going for now. after reading your post i'm thinking this could be a much wiser "experiment" than a thousand dollars for a 300 series board. i mean really, why can't i just buy everything i want? rent's overrated.
 
I have a TSR-8 and a M-308 mixer. Great combo and the board is built like a tank. Everything about the board is great for the money. I paid $125 on ebay for mine. The EQ section is good, though not as good as my old 388, the preamps are good although I use the pres on my Fatman compressor/preamp most often, I get a noticable bump up in quality, I'm not knocking the built in pres on the Tascam, I do use them along with the Fatman to mix it up a bit and they do get the job done. The routing options seem almost endless, the sound is great, the build quality is unheard of in this day and age. You can't go wrong with the M-300 series mixers, bang for the buck all the way.
 
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