Mic's for live Jazz performances

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Bassman2003

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Hello,

I have two NT5's that I use in a stereo pair for live jazz performances.

I would like to add a closer sound to my recordings, so I am looking for opinions on adding two more mics to my setup.

The mics are going into a Mackie 1202, so I only have four inputs to work with.

I was thinking of treating the entire band like a drum set and putting to high booms over the top with condensers.

I would then balance the room mics with the stage mics.

Should I use omni or cardioid?

Should I buy two more NT5's or some other mics.

I would like to put a ceiling of $1000 for the pair, but might go higher if the sound is very much improved.

Thanks for your opinions!
 
I would take a look at a large diaphragm condensor to extra colour that small diaphragm sound.

Considering your price range, I would do a search on the (partly) tube condensors.
 
Live jazz recording of what? A four piece combo, or a big band, or what?

One set of recommendations can't work for everything.
 
Frankly, for $1000, I'd just buy a pair of Josephson C42's, and sell those NT5's to cut my losses. The NT-5's are really OK, but the Josephsons (or Neumann, DPA, Schoeps, etc.) will blow them out of the water. Fewer good mics instead of more mediocre mics.-Richie
 
Hello,

Thanks for the replies.

The groups should be small, 3 to 6 people. Small group jazz.

I looked on the internet for the josephson mics. Not too many stores sell them.

If I buy the Josephsons, will they be better as the group overheads or the stereo pair?

I would really like to have both a stereo pair and the overheads to be able to have some mixing options, since some instruments project forward more than others, like trumpet.

So I will be keeping the NT5's :)

Thanks for any more opinions!
 
several jazz musicians i have worked with have liked the little akg c391b's. i would stay away from LD mics for any kind of jazz work, or frankly any kind of ensemble recording. i've been through tons of neumann mics, through schoeps, and am currently using DPA 4011s and DPA 4006s, and AKG c480/ck61s as spots. IMHO< the key here is to select mics that have a reasonably flat response curve, which makes them useable on almost any application. good luck.
 
Thanks.

Right now I am thinking of the NT5's as the stereo pair in front of the group and two of the following as overheads:

Josephson C42's - Cardioid
AKG C451b's - Cardioid
Earthworks SRO's - Omni

Any opinions?
 
Are you mixing it live to 2-track as you record? Do you have more tracks you can work with?

All I do is record my small jazz group, usually at gigs. When you say a "closer" sound, I think of an example like the Bill Evans Village Vangaurd recordings. I don't think you can get that without close-miking. It helps to have a few more inputs and the ability to record several tracks.

Are the instruments all acoustic? (upright bass, real piano, etc).

I've been messing around with mic placement and mixing techiniques for this format for years. Let me know if there's anything I can offer to help.
 
Hello,

I run the mics into a Mackie 1202 and then run a line level Right & Left to the XRL inputs of my broadcast camera.

I video the performances as well as record the audio.

So yes, I am going direct to two track and mixing (really setting my levels) during the sound check.

I am sort of a one man show here so I need a setup that is a bit forgiving, but offers some choices.

Most of the instruments are acoustic.

Thanks for any help.
 
That is going to limit your ability to get that close-up sound, in my opinion.

All I can think of is to get a stereo pair as close to the group as possible while maintaining the right mix, then adding high-quality compression. I hear the RNC is a great, inexpensive stereo comp. Adding more mics when you can't adjust the balance later could be asking for trouble (phasing problems, etc.). Jazz recordings are typically best when kept simple, IMO.

Are you using any compression now?
 
Right now, I am not using any compression.

The problem is that I am filming the events with two cameras, a wide shot and a closer shot.

If I setup a stereo pair too close to the stage, the stand kills the wide shot.

So I basically have to keep the stereo pair close to where I would set a camera.

This is usually back a bit from the stage.

This is where I thought the overhead idea would give some closer micing while not intruding on the video frame.

I know this is not the ideal setup, but I have a video company and the video footage is very important.

All the while, I would like to offer the best audio I can.

Thanks for any more help!
 
I don't see what the overheads are going to get you that the XY pair isn't.

I would think instead of the xy pair plus close micing of whatever member(s) of the combo is the soloist for the piece
 
I am leary of really close mics on individuals because more attention must be paid towards mixing through the show, which I myself am busy with shooting the video. And I don't make enough on these to hire others to help.

Also, isn't it true that unless each member of the group has a mic, one or two close mics will sound out of place in the mix?

I know this situation is not easy, close sound with a small number of mics, that is why I need some help.

Thanks
 
Speaking of compression, I noticed a combination tube mic pre & compression unit made by SMPro Audio for $250 - 2 channels.

How would the output quality of this unit (or similar unit) compare to my Mackie 1202 VLZ pro board?

Sorry for all of the questions!

To recap:

-Choice of three mics

-Outboard pre's or stay with the Mackie

Thanks
 
My summary:
Close miking one or two instruments will cause issues since it is being mixed on the fly. Find a way to put two good mics in an X-Y position in the closest, unobtrusive place. Adding compression is way more important than the preamp at this point. If you have budget left over after the comp., then upgrade your preamps.
 
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