Mic'd recordings of Acoustic guitar using PODfarm?

J

JamEZmusic

Active member
Is it standard practice to record an acoustic guitar and then run that recording into PODfarm for a better acoustic sound? I can't really get a nice recording with my current guitars just using the normal EQ/Compression/Reverb techniques, does anyone here run amp simulators such as the ones in PODfarm to shape the Acoustic guitar?

I know this is a veeery basic question, I have little experience with mic recordings and I am struggling getting a good mix.

How normal is it to run steel string acoustic recordings through VST's like PODfarm? or even GuitarRig? I know that it's for electric guitar mainly but will it help my mix? Or hurt it?

Or is it something I should stay away from!


while I'm here, I am trying to cover Silent Hill - Not Tomorrow 1 (Long Version) - YouTube this song, the rhythm guitar is Arpeggiated all the way through, how would you guys go about recording something to sound as close to this as possible? So am I correct in assuming that I can take these steps to get close to that sound

Rhythm Guitar (Steel String (arps))
2 takes, layer each one pan hard left + right

Mic 6 - 10 inches away from 12th fret using a "cardoid condenser mic"

EQ just a little, low and high pass filters to take out boom and extreme highs, take out some mud at 240hz etc.

Compression on each track, 3:1 or 2:1 ratio very subtle

Reverb, 2 second decay time, very easy on the wet mix, big room, no high or low cuts.


Lead Guitar(Steel String (will be replacing the oboe section with this))
1 take, but 2 mics. One below soundhole in between the bridge and the hole and the other mic... errr in this neck area? lol

Same as before with EQ, except maybe a boost from 8khz upwards of 2 or 3 db's.

Compression, hardly anything. Mainly I will use Volume automation if I attack a string too hard and want to tame it.

Reverb, 4secs decay, moderately used


Just don't know if I should run PODfarm through it? Please don't tell me that "if it sounds good, do it!" because my ears are fatigued right now and I have bad judgement for what people generally like to listen to, is it just something that people do around here is all I am wondering about?


I know I am being a bit vague, not looking for definite answers, just a little bit of guidance?


Really appreciate your advice! Thank you for reading through ^ that lot.



James.
 
Don't mix/judge recordings with fatigued ears. Track, make sure you got clean tracks, then come back to it.

PodFarm - why? Do you want the sound of an acoustic plugged into a guitar amp? Or use some of the FX?

You've already EQed, compressed and added reverb - is this just 'standard' for you, or did you determine that this is what each track needed?

The first step in recording an acoustic guitar is getting the raw recorded sound you want. EQ, compression and reverb are used to tweak the sound and to make it fit together with the other tracks.
 
I am still playing around with it now.

PODfarm, I thought maybe there may be a better reverb than the stock stuff with FLstudio, and running it through an Amp simulator with no type or distortion I thought may help me to get closer to a guitar tone I am happy with? Unless the same kind of thing can be achieved without PODfarm? Or any similar guitar plugin. I was not intending on changing the acoustic sound into something that you would normally hear in PODfarm, but just colour it a little to help it sit well. I really wanted to stay away from FX for the acoustic but if it helps..... I hear people use a little chorus for lead acoustic tracks to enhance the sound in a pleasant way?

EQ/Compression/Verb is not a standard for me, as I am new to recording like this. I actually thought it was just standard for all acoustic recordings?

I've never heard of anybody not using an EQ on an acoustic guitar, so I just kind of follow suit.

The Compression, I was not sure if I needed actually.... ? So I chose to do a 2:1 soft compression to be safe, I have done a little volume automation instead to really tame some of the loud notes that I accidently played.

Reverb, love reverb. although not too much :)

Getting a good mic recording from the start is not something that is possible, I just can't afford to go out and buy a new guitar, or a different room. I am just trying to see if I can make best with what I have! And I am sure there is something I can do to improve upon my recordings, which is why I was wondering about PODfarm. This changes the sound in a way that I just can't do with EQ/compression.


I wish my ears didn't have to fatigue out on me, I have all the time I need tonight.
 
I hope you realise that the silent hill soundtrack isn't even a real guitar! that's a synth right there. You won't get that sound from podfarm, or indeed from a real guitar, yes you heard me, it's a synth.
 
What Btyre2013 said - that's a synth guitar played from a keyboard judging by the slight timing discrepancies... I have a patch just like it in Omnisphere... complete with atmosperic woo woo backing noises...

And no, you wouldn't record your acoustic guitar through a PODfarm if you actually wanted it to sound like an acoustic guitar - you'd use a microphone, then apply whatever it needs by way of reverb etc, via whatever means are at your disposal - many good free reverb VSTs around. And if you don't know whether you need compression or not... time to read up, and leave the knobs alone until you do..

This is not to say you can't record your acoustic guitar however you want, but it's not necessarily going to sound like an acoustic guitar.
 
I would never have guessed that, fuck....

I thought it was convincing, I feel stupid.


Edit: I only just saw your post! "Armistice"

Ok I will spend the night reading up on Compression. I won't bother using PODfarm to enhance the Acoustic as it sounds like it's not really a preferred method at all.

I always record my acoustics with a mic, I don't have any other means to record them as I don't have an output on the guitar itself.

I'll probably post up my attempt of this song when I get a chance to record it and finish it up sometime over the next week or 2. That way you can all have a laugh :)
 
JamEZmusic said:
I would never have guessed that, fuck....

I thought it was convincing, I feel stupid.


Edit: I only just saw your post! "Armistice"

Ok I will spend the night reading up on Compression. I won't bother using PODfarm to enhance the Acoustic as it sounds like it's not really a preferred method at all.

I always record my acoustics with a mic, I don't have any other means to record them as I don't have an output on the guitar itself.

I'll probably post up my attempt of this song when I get a chance to record it and finish it up sometime over the next week or 2. That way you can all have a laugh :)
Click to expand...

Don't feel stupid... these "synths" are actually based on samples, so it probably was a real guitar originally... OK so if you're using a mic, then how you add effects and dynamics processing afterwards is up to you... yes you can use yer pod thingy but there are easier ways probably, depending upon your set up..
 
I find synths such as those to be really interesting. When I get more confidence I will try to dial in a synth which can kind of emulate what I heard in the Silent Hill song. Now I know it is a Synth, I can kind of hear it, the string noises are no existent, but the holds and sustains are spot on! When I play it with my guitar I hold the bass notes just the same, I suppose this is why I was fooled.

Can anyone please explain this to me:

So I have spent a fair few hours learning about compression. I have created a sound file that alternates to max volume 0db and then half that volume every half second or so, this way I can try to get my head around a compressor, I have managed to get a file to sound like it has 0 dynamics by lowering the threshold all the way with maximum ratio and a couple of gain plugins to get the volume back up to it's original level again. And I now feel like I fully understand the concept of the attack/threshold/ratio but I just can't get my head around the release dial!

I also played with lots of settings, I did about 25recordings of different settings and studied the wave outputs carefully.

So, I have a sound that goes High, Low, high and low it alternates every half a second or so...

- the High part of the sound file is max loudness 0db

- The Low part of the sound file is half loudness around -15db

- It's just some white noise, and the waveform has nice square edges up until I fiddle with the compressor.

- Now when I set the threshold to -10db, so it is above the quiet parts, my understanding is that anything louder than -10db gets manipulated by the compressor. So why is it that if I set the Release Dial high, like 250ms-500ms it then starts to mess with the quiet part of the signal? How can the compressor even mess with any signal that is below the threshold? I can't figure it out. And where would be the control that lets me choose how much it messes with the quiet part? Is it just a side effect or is this intended?

-I understand that the release won't do anything until the signal drops back below the threshold again, and that essentially if the compressor is always in effect then it would make the release redundant. From my understanding. But this doesn't help me understand why the release makes the wavefile breath.



After playing around with the compressors, now I feel like I definitely need to use one with my acoustic "lead" recording, but not with the Rhythm (arps), Maybe I will put a compressor across the master track, because I tried it out quickly and my track kind of seemed to sound a lot closer to the original mixing that way. I did go crazy with the compressor settings though, but it didn't seem to matter? My track before the compressor sounded way too bright and clean, now it sounds much easier on the ear and is closer to the original. So it turned out to be a happy accident.

I know that I have veered way off topic, but I didn't realise that I needed to take a few steps back before I attempt this song again.


Thank you for responding.

(I am in serious doubt about me EQ'ing everything correctly now, if I can't even get a compressor right, I may look for a college course or something)

Another Edit: Is Omnisphere a Synthesizer or a DAW? How does it compare to Sytrus in FLstudio or Massive, which a lot of people seem to use?
 
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First of all, I do actually sometimes run acoustic guitars through PodFarm sims, but not when I want it to sound like an acoustic...

Next, there is more to PodFarm than the amp sims. There are some halfway decent channel strip emulations, compressors, EQs. I never use them, but they're there, and could come in handy for something like this.

Then, the release parameter determines how long it takes the compressor to get from whatever gain reduction was triggered when it was over the threshold back to unity. It's like if you were turning the knob manually. You hear it get loud, so turn it down, but you don't react right away, and it takes some time to actually turn the knob. That's the attack. Then the input gets quiet and you start turning it back up, but that takes some time, too. That's the release
 
Armistice said:
Don't feel stupid... these "synths" are actually based on samples, so it probably was a real guitar originally
Click to expand...
I remember one of the first VSTis I ever heard and what got me to start exploring the use of VSTis was one of an acoustic guitar that was on a CD in an edition of "Computer music" or "Sound on sound" back in 2004. At the time, I couldn't, truly could not believe the clarity and reality of the sound. I thought it was magnificent.
But I was never able to find one that sounded like it ! Fortunately, as I was keeping my acoustic guitars, it wasn't an issue because I use them all the time. I've only ever used a synth acoustic guitar once on a track and that was more out of curiosity than anything else. It was from Sonik synth and I used it for some acoustic lead guitar. The only reason it sounds realistic is because it's mixed with double bass, drums, various percussion, acoustic rhythm guitars {all real} and a bit of flute {which was a sample} and is mixed low enough to stand out without dominating.

JamEZmusic said:
How normal is it to run steel string acoustic recordings through VST's like PODfarm? or even GuitarRig? I know that it's for electric guitar mainly but will it help my mix? Or hurt it?

Or is it something I should stay away from!
Click to expand...
Whether it's normal or not doesn't really matter. Who knows what goes on in every studio or what jiggery pokery gets applied to some acoustic guitars ? Not many people know that sometimes, acoustic guitar tracks are enhanced/layered with electric guitar because you don't really 'hear' the electric. And they'll go "Wow ! what a great acoustic tone !!"
The only way you can know how it will sound and if you'll like it.........is to try it.
 
I don't know how to quote but,

Thanks Ashcat_lt, it is really nice to know that you run some stuff through VST's. I noticed there are a lot of simulators that can change the sound of the Acoustic, I found the answer I am looking for thanks to yours and other responses here. I was only a little unsure if you could get an acoustic guitar to sound "more" like an acoustic using PODfarm, now I understand I need to do the tweaks outside of the VST to get the Acoustic to sound like a nicer Acoustic! It's nice for me not to have to chase my own tail anymore by looking in all the wrong places to enhance the Acoustic sound.

I am sure there will come plenty of times when I will look at PODfarm for that "specific" sound though, even for Mic'd acoustic recordings!

Thank you.

grimtraveller... "YES!" that's the sort of info I was looking for! I never thought of layering an acoustic with electric to create a nice sound. That's great advice, thank you for opening my eyes to this technique! Can't wait to try it out. I will be sure to listen out carefully to other people who use this technique to see if I can spot where they might have done this. Awesome advice! thank you.

I always try to record as much guitar as possible because I record the video for it as well. So I would not use synths to fool any listeners into thinking it was a guitar, but it's something I am really interested in still! I think I am just trying to broaden my knowledge as much as possible, and I guess one day I may record a few tracks without the video.


Soo... Is it really selfish of me to link to what I have so far on my silent hill cover? I am looking for brutal honesty about how I mixed it and recorded. I don't care if you say it's the worst mix you've ever heard, I will keep trying my absolute best to get it sounding as best as I can possibly make it with my equipment. I would like to completely finish this song but make a few mp3's along the way of my progress, and I will hope and keep my fingers crossed that maybe somebody would be able to help me achieve something I can honestly say for the first time I am "proud" of recording?

Or is this entirely the wrong place for that kind of thing?

What I have so far is only the first 1:30 of the song, I am figuring that it will be around 3minutes when I finished except the second half all being electric with new rhythm and some drums and whatever else I spontaneously think up when it comes to it?

Feel kinda awkward asking for help in this way. I really want to learn this stuff and get something sounding professional if I can. I know there are some great mixers/masterers that know exactly what they are doing and have an incredible ear and top judgement. I would really like to have someone critique my first "serious" attempt at a song.

If this board doesn't allow stuff like this, then I understand.


Thank you for the further posts on my earlier questions grimtraveller and Ashcat_lt
 
This is a great place for getting help with mixes. Put your music on MP3 clinic and that is where you can get feedback.
 
DM60, thanks for that, I will create a topic and post in there from now on about my mix attempt sometime tonight.
 
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