mic the snare

[RAMI]

oh snap.

to err is...

I still love you.

 

[drossfile]

I still love you.

i feel the onset of a bromance.

 

[drossfile]

Just a little correction, Dross. The 3:1 rule applies to micing 2 sources, not the same source. For example, if you're close-micing 2 toms, each mic should be 3 times the distance away from the OTHER tom. It doesn't apply here to micing one source.

btw, thanks for correcting the inaccuracy rather than simply saying, "you're wrong."

 

[RAMI]

btw, thanks for correcting the inaccuracy rather than simply saying, "you're wrong."

No problem. I did that because you've never come off as a pseudo know-it-all. Your posts are usually helpful and informed. This time, you just happened to make a mistake. No biggie.

 

[MCI2424]

Pay attention to this advice. This man is speaking the truth.



Who told you this? The only mics I'm aware of that you need to be careful with are ribbon mics.

You can easily cause a dynamic or condensor mic to distort by "bottoming out" the diaphram. Backing off a loud source will stop this. Distorted guitars through a loud amp can bottom out the diaphram and sorting out the distortion made by the amp and distortion made by the mic can sometimes be very hard.

 

[stupidfatnugly]

] i just read this for the baby bottle: Maximum Sound-Pressure Level 133 dB (for 0.5% THD)

"can handle 130dB SPL or better - which is more than most of our ears can handle."

so can I smack the snare as hard as I can?

 

[MCI2424]

] i just read this for the baby bottle: Maximum Sound-Pressure Level 133 dB (for 0.5% THD)

"can handle 130dB SPL or better - which is more than most of our ears can handle."

so can I smack the snare as hard as I can?

A close miced snare drum could clip any mic if the snare is hit too hard. I doubt you would want to put your ear where a mic would be and smack the drum. It would be pretty dangerous to your ear drum.

 

[mixsit]

This always makes for an interesting side note on this sort of thing- Shake a set of keys near a cond. mic and see how far away you have to back them off not to have them sound obviously clipped in your phones. (vs something like a snare, keys being easy to hear as the tone goes from crisp jingles' to dull thuds-
Or track the thing. Look at the waveform. Does it flat-top out as you hit the thing harder? Done. (..presuming you've tested the other points in the chain that they arn't in clip..

btw, thanks for correcting the inaccuracy rather than simply saying, "you're wrong."

Yeah that. Actually I would have thought it would have spurred a nice discussion on why' which is really the whole point isn't it -if we're using (and then repeating) these 'methods', hopefully it would be based on reason, the reasons why.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

so can I smack the snare as hard as I can?

A close miced snare drum could clip any mic if the snare is hit too hard. I doubt you would want to put your ear where a mic would be and smack the drum. It would be pretty dangerous to your ear drum.

MCI said it pretty good. You can smack a snare as hard as you like and mic it fine with a ribbon mic or a tissue paper if the mic or tissue paper were far enough away.

On the other hand, one can put a dynamic up to a snare, and if you hit the snare as hard as you can, still "bottom out" (in essence, "clip") the microphone, ruining the sound (unless that's the sound you want.) Even with a dynamic, you might wind up wanting to re-position the mic or lay off the snare a bit.

My main point when saying what I did is there is a *lot* of generalization floating around that categorizes microphone use by diaphragm designs: use only dynamics for this, use only condensers for that, and then use ribbons only in this third situation.

In many real-life situations that makes about as much sense as saying use only a diesel engine for this kind of trip, a gasoline engine for that kind of trip, and an electric motor only in this third kind of instance. Sure, they all have their general pluses and minuses that can apply to extreme or obvious situations (I wouldn't want a diesel auto engine on the Alaskan Highway in January if I couldn't keep it warm all the time, or an electric car if I had to travel a thousand miles in one go without the opportunity of recharge, and so forth). But for 90% of everyday use like going to work or going grocery shopping, other than cost factors, it really doesn't matter whole lot what you have under the hood, they all will get the job done.

With microphones it's mostly a matter of picking them by desired sound. To say that a condenser should be used on vocals and a dynamic on a guitar cab, etc., or to ask whether a condenser or a dynamic is better for Job X, is creating an artificial dilemma. Just ask anyone who has used an RE-20 dynamic for vocals or a Royer ribbon as an overhead on drums and gotten excellent results, or has tried comparing a Neumann U87 to a Rode NT1a, assuming they had similar uses simply because they were both LDCs.

G.

 

[drossfile]

Yeah that. Actually I would have thought it would have spurred a nice discussion on why' which is really the whole point isn't it -if we're using (and then repeating) these 'methods', hopefully it would be based on reason, the reasons why.

absolutely. as soon as rami pointed out why i was wrong, i slapped myself in the head--i knew that. i just got a bit mixed up and ahead of myself. overall, though, i couldn't find that it particularly affected the accuracy of the rest of my post. if it did, please feel free to point that out too.

clarity is a good thing, and i'm glad i got called out on it either way. the last thing i want to put my name on is "bs."

 

[stupidfatnugly]

regardless of the sound I get, I can hit it as hard as possible and not damage the mic though?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

regardless of the sound I get, I can hit it as hard as possible and not damage the mic though?

Use some common sense. Stick with a condenser or dynamic. Try it starting farther away. if you still have plenty of headroom in the mic, and if it does not sound right for you, try moving it a little closer and check again. Repeat as needed until you have the right mic position that's not clipping or bottoming out the mic.

If during testing you accidentally clip it once or twice, you'll *probably* be just fine, but there's absolutely no reason to do it regularly or on purpose.

Of course, as usual, the best solution is to learn how to play the drums first before you start recording, but that doesn't seem to be a very popular option around these parts.

G.

 

[RAMI]

Use some common sense.

HAHAHAHA!!!!! Stop it, man. You're killing me.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

HAHAHAHA!!!!! Stop it, man. You're killing me.

D'oh...I wandered off into Bizzarro World again, didn't I

G.

 

[stupidfatnugly]

i still just have anxiety that i've already ruined it

but common sense? how do i learn that?

how do you teach it?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

i still just have anxiety that i've already ruined it

Hard to tell with a blue bottle.

but common sense? how do i learn that?

how do you teach it?

Keep it up and the answer to both of those will be "Via the business end of a Louisville Slugger." .

G.

 

[Synergist]

Yeah...I'd think the only thing to be careful of is the SPL's the mic can handle.


Try the Recorderman or the Glyn Johns method.
Experiment with a bit of both.

You'll get it dude. No worries.

My usual setup is an SM58 on the batter head, and a C414 set to cardioid underneath to pick up all those lovely snares. Works a treat and the 414's even response helps with the crispness. However, not everybody can get their mitts on a 414, so nearly any half-decent condenser which has switchable polar patterns should do fine.

+1 for the getting the snare as good as it can be prior to micing it up!



If you're recording jazz or drums you could try a mid/side pair over the kit, looking down - aim them so the focal point is the snare drum, and things should just fall into place nicely when you balance M and S channels. Plus point is it *reliably* degrades gracefully to mono. I've also been using two mics in a Blumlein config over a jazz kit recently, also sounds nice - you can get a very wide stereo image if you desire, but M/S is definitely king of overhead configs.


If you want to see some mic configurations in action, record-producer.com has some videos of a kit at Abbey Road miced up with different setups (and audio for each), very useful if you want a solid reference of how the setups should look and how they sound. I think I bought my copies for all of $9!