mic pre recommendations

  • Thread starter Thread starter JTC111
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Join GearSlutz and check the classified section often (you can't access it unless you are a member -- it's free). I've bought three lunchboxes there. Larger racks come up from time to time also. There is a 10 slot API rack listed currently. People have been going for the Brent Averill racks (with external power supply) also when they come up. The newer API lunchboxes are supposed to have beefed up power supplies (as opposed to the older 6 slot boxes and 4 slot boxes). I don't think they will take the Chandler, but should handle most everything else. There are really only a handful of current modules where the power supply is an issue. Depending on what you are looking at buying, it may not be an issue.
 
pohaku said:
Join GearSlutz and check the classified section often (you can't access it unless you are a member -- it's free). I've bought three lunchboxes there. Larger racks come up from time to time also. There is a 10 slot API rack listed currently. People have been going for the Brent Averill racks (with external power supply) also when they come up. The newer API lunchboxes are supposed to have beefed up power supplies (as opposed to the older 6 slot boxes and 4 slot boxes). I don't think they will take the Chandler, but should handle most everything else. There are really only a handful of current modules where the power supply is an issue. Depending on what you are looking at buying, it may not be an issue.
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What slot rack will handle the Chandler?
 
I expect that the Averill rack, the OSA rack and the API 500V rack (not the 500B6 lunchbox) can handle the Chandler. Whether you want to buy Chandler's power supply and use it instead of the power supplies that come with the above racks appears discretionary. You can buy the Averill rack without a power supply.
 
I've gotten very good results from Avalon AD2022. It'll give you the gain for your ribbon, is quiet, and clean as hell. Just a touch of color from the big mucking transformer. The 737 has nice color for vocals, but more than I want for stereo ensemble recording and instruments. I use the 2022 with the Kiwi and a C414, and it likes them both just fine. In your price range, does just what you want.

Here's a clip of some acoustic guitar (Taylor 710) done with a single C414 B-ULS into the Avalon. D-A conversion was done with a TCelectronics M300 set to bypass (no kidding) into a Roland VS1824CD (also no kidding). The M300 may be a cheap FX box, but the A-D D-A conversion is better than the Roland (all right, it's what I had). Try the MP3 clips on tracks #1 and 2. Good luck in your search for the Holy Grail pre.-Richie

http://bardwire.com/reunion.htm
 
Richard Monroe said:
I've gotten very good results from Avalon AD2022. It'll give you the gain for your ribbon, is quiet, and clean as hell. Just a touch of color from the big mucking transformer. The 737 has nice color for vocals, but more than I want for stereo ensemble recording and instruments. I use the 2022 with the Kiwi and a C414, and it likes them both just fine. In your price range, does just what you want.

Here's a clip of some acoustic guitar (Taylor 710) done with a single C414 B-ULS into the Avalon. D-A conversion was done with a TCelectronics M300 set to bypass (no kidding) into a Roland VS1824CD (also no kidding). The M300 may be a cheap FX box, but the A-D D-A conversion is better than the Roland (all right, it's what I had). Try the MP3 clips on tracks #1 and 2. Good luck in your search for the Holy Grail pre.-Richie

http://bardwire.com/reunion.htm
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Thanks for the link. It was like Steve Goodman meets Jethro Tull meets Kate Rusby etc. It was a lot of fun listening to the clips.

I didn't have a 2022, but I did have an M5 until just recently. It's the same pre in the single version. I traded it for a Kiwi. I just didn't think the sound from the M5 was musical enough. The guitar sounded good, but it wasn't special and I didn't think it did a great job on the high end harmonics that other pres can bring out.

In your music, the guitar is part of a much bigger mix than what I'm going to be doing. For me, the guitar is going to be right out in front. There'll be bass on the tracks and depending on the tune, some light percussion, maybe some piano but not much more than that.

The Holy Grail of Mic Pres? I probably don't have enough money for a Holy Grail, but a silver chalice would be nice... as long as it's not the chalice from the palace that has the pellet with the poison.
 
Steve Goodman meets Jethro Tull meets Kate Rusby? I'll take that as a compliment. Best of luck in your search.-Richie
 
pohaku said:
JTC111 said:
Thanks for the link. It was like Steve Goodman meets Jethro Tull meets Kate Rusby etc. QUOTE]

LOL!
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I really did mean it in the best possible way. I like what the guy is doing. My taste in music is all over the place, although I'm really a folkie at heart. Hell, sometimes I drive around in the car with the windows down and Alfred Deller turned up real loud. That'll get you some strange looks.
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JTC111 said:
I'm looking to upgrade from the Focusrite TwinTrak that I'm currently using. Anyone have any insights/experience with some high end two-channel mic pres? I'm looking for recommendations and descriptions. The primary use will be for recording acoustic guitar.

I'd be recording via ProTools onto a G4 using a Yamaha O1v board.

If it helps, these are the microphones I currently own:
BLUE Kiwi
BLUE Woodpecker
AKG Solidtube
AKG C 414 B-XL II
AKG C 451B
AKG C 1000
Earthworks SR30
MXL V69 Mogami

THANKS!!!
Jim
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I only record solo fingerstyle acoustic and classical guitar. In the past 10 years or so, I've tried, used or owned numerous pres and mics for this application. As far as pres go, there are perhaps too many to list that do an excellent to incredible job. And, of course, there are many pres I've never had the pleasure of working with. A few standouts, IMO, are:

Pendulum Audio MDP-1a
John Hardy M2 (or M-1)
ADK AP2

The Pendulum is sensual and euphonic. The Hardy is very present and pleasing. The ADK is a chameleon - given the swappable input trannies and swappable op amps is goes from APIish and Neveish to Hardyish and Forrsellish, and many flavors inbetween.

But, of course, the mics are an even more important part of the equation. The mics you have would not be my first choice for acoustic guitar (fingerstyle), although adding a second Woodpecker, a second AKG C 414 B-XL II and/or a second AKG 451B wuld provide excellent, albeit different, results. You may want to look at Schoeps CMC6 (with several capsule options), Microtech Gefell M295 or M294 (incredible mics) or several other high end SD mics (Senny, DPA (clinical), Joesphson, Peluso P28 (very nice and different). I have pairs of Schoeps SMS6/MK41, Gefell M294, Peluso P28, AEA R84 and ADK TL (modded). That's the best mic locker for my limited uses.
 
sdelsolray said:
A few standouts, IMO, are:
Pendulum Audio MDP-1a
The Pendulum is sensual and euphonic.
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The Pendulum is a nice option. My one concern is this: I'm not all that technically savvy and I'm unsure as to how to hook up the unbalanced outputs to my system. I read what it says:

Outputs
· To the left of the input jacks are the output jacks for channels 1 and 2. The male XLR connectors on top are 3 pin unbalanced outputs, with Pin 1 + Pin 3 = ground, and Pin 2 = output. Connect these outputs to 3 pin balanced console, converter, or tape inputs. If you encounter ground loop hum when connecting to active-balanced inputs, lift the shield from Pin 1 on the input end of the cable. When connecting to a balanced patch bay, be sure that Pin 2 = Tip. For connection to transformer-balanced inputs, do not lift the ground at either end of the cable.

· The two 1/4" jacks below the XLR connectors are unbalanced output connectors, wired in parallel to the XLR outputs, with Tip = Pin 2, Ring = Pin 1. Use them for connecting the MDP-1 to unbalanced inputs.
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I've read it over and over. I've looked over the instructions for my patchbay (1/4" balance Neutrik Patchlink SPL) and I'm totally lost as to how I would correctly integrate this unit into my system.
 
JTC111 said:
The Pendulum is a nice option. My one concern is this: I'm not all that technically savvy and I'm unsure as to how to hook up the unbalanced outputs to my system. I read what it says:



I've read it over and over. I've looked over the instructions for my patchbay (1/4" balance Neutrik Patchlink SPL) and I'm totally lost as to how I would correctly integrate this unit into my system.
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I've run the unbalanced Pendulum outputs into all sorts of balanced connections (short cable lengths) for many years. Never had an issue.
 
sdelsolray said:
I've run the unbalanced Pendulum outputs into all sorts of balanced connections (short cable lengths) for many years. Never had an issue.
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That's good to know. Do you know of any sound files out there so I can get some feel for the Pendulum?
 
The other thing is that they have incredible service. I e-mailed at 2:00 in the morning once, got an answer back by 7:00 from Greg Gualtieri, the owner and designer. We had a quick exchange of e-mails and he solved my connection problem.
 
JTC111 said:
That's good to know. Do you know of any sound files out there so I can get some feel for the Pendulum?
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Here are five different preamp samples I did last summer, which include the Pendulum MDP-1a and it's sibling the Pendulum SPS-1.

There are five separate takes of the same music, one for each preamp. Other than that, the player (me), guitar, 2 mics, mic positionings, converters, etc. are all the same. These are the raw tracks - no processing except for (i) stereo mix with panning of the two mics 50% each L/R and dither when bounced to disk.

ADK AP-2 (with Cinemag transformer and DOPA1 op amp)

ADK AP-2 (with Cinimag transformer and VinM op amp)

Digidesign Digi003

Pendulum Audio MDP-1a (tube)

Pendulum Audio SPS-1 (solid state)

A bit more detail:

Song: Accordion Bells, Leo Kottke (first 60 seconds or so)
Guitar: Bill Tippin OMT (EIR/Alpine)
Strings: Cleartone, light, nearing end of midlife (i.e., getting old)
Mics: Pair Peluso P28 mid-diaphragm tube mics
Mic positions: Spaced pair, #1 18" from 3rd fret pointing at 16th fret, #2 18" from edge of lower bout pointing at bridge
Converters: Digi003 (don't laugh, they're pretty good)
Recording: 24bit/88.2kHz, bounced to 16-bit/44.1kHz .wav
 
sdelsolray said:
Here are five different preamp samples I did last summer, which include the Pendulum MDP-1a and it's sibling the Pendulum SPS-1.

There are five separate takes of the same music, one for each preamp. Other than that, the player (me), guitar, 2 mics, mic positionings, converters, etc. are all the same. These are the raw tracks - no processing except for (i) stereo mix with panning of the two mics 50% each L/R and dither when bounced to disk.
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Thanks for those. I don't think the Pendulum is what I'm looking for, but I can understand why you like it.

I gotta say, I'm walking into this purchase with an enormous amount of trepidation. I'm very worried that I'm going to make the wrong choice. The only thing that is going to save me in the end is that I don't have another high end pre to compare the new one to.
 
Well, assuming you are still looking for a "clean" preamp, some of the other obvious and more popular choices would be Millennia, Hardy, Grace, DAV and perhaps Speck. If you want a bit more "color", the choices expand considerably.
 
pohaku said:
Well, assuming you are still looking for a "clean" preamp, some of the other obvious and more popular choices would be Millennia, Hardy, Grace, DAV and perhaps Speck. If you want a bit more "color", the choices expand considerably.
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I don't think I want the sound to be too antiseptic, but I'm not looking to make my guitars sounds like kazoos either. But the information I've gotten on this board has been incredible helpful.

BIG BIG THANKS TO EVERYONE!!!

I think I've narrowed it down a bit. Of course, as soon as you think you've got it down to just a few, a new one pops up and charms you, doesn't it?

So here's my short list:
John Hardy M2 with the 20 ohm option rather than the 20db pad
A-Designs MP-2A (which might be the ugliest piece of gear I've ever seen)
Demeter VTMP-2C
and a late entry to the race is the Wunder PAFOUR

I still have some questions though...
My TwinTrak allows me to vary the input inpedance and I've found that it makes a big difference in the sound I get. With the exception of the Hardy which gives me two choices, none of the other pres allows any adjustment. Is this just less of an issue on higher end gear for some reason? My Liquid Channel doesn't give me any options either, so maybe that's it. Maybe on the higher end gear it just doesn't matter that much, but I'd love to know why.

The next thing I'm struggling with is tube or no tube. I'm just not sure how warm I need the guitar to be in the mix. I'll more than likely be recording my vocals with an AKG Solidtube into the Liquid Channel (the Solidtube really works well for my voice), so I get some nice warmth there. I don't think I'll be recording the guitar tracks with tube mics. The Blue Woodpecker, a ribbon, will be in the mix, but there won't be a tube mic in front of the guitar anytime soon. My main guitar mics are the Woodpecker, C414B-XL II, C451B, and an Earthworks SR30. If the vocals are warm, should the guitar stay towards the warm side or should the guitar give some contrast?

I know the standard response is "go with which pre sounds best" but the one that sounds best by itself may not be the one that sounds best with my voice in the mix.

My gut tells me to go with the tubes because it's probably easier to eq some of that away rather than try to add it later. Am I wrong on that?
 
Just when I think I have it down to four....

"So here's my short list:
John Hardy M2 with the 20 ohm option rather than the 20db pad
A-Designs MP-2A (which might be the ugliest piece of gear I've ever seen)
Demeter VTMP-2C
and a late entry to the race is the Wunder PAFOUR"

and yet another late entry, the Phoenix Audio DRS-2


THIS IS MADNESS!!!
 
Take This --------

TL AUDIO pa-1.

a 2 channel tube preamp.

I own it, and you wony believe how rich and warm everything through it sounds.

the BRITTS know their job when it comes to tube pre's:)
 
I think I've made up my mind. I was leaning pretty heavily towards the ADesigns MP-2A and I really thought that was the one I'd wind up buying in the end, however.... I got quite the education on this board and a couple of others (GS and StudioForums) and for that I'm very grateful (I don't mind repeating that over and over).

At some point in this process I made a list of the 'pros and cons' of each pre I was considering. There was only one pre on the list for which I couldn't find a single con: the Demeter VTMP-2C.

It's quiet. It has 10-light LED meters which I prefer to VU. It gives 65db of gain and it has an output attenuator.

I'm still going to keep my eyes open for a 500 series rack to pick up on the cheap because I'd love to pick up some additional pres down the road, but for now, I'm pretty sure the Demeter is going to find a home at the top of my rack. I'm going to sit on the decision for a few days, but I think that's it.
 
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