mic placement for double tracking

  • Thread starter Thread starter Big Kenny
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Does a dyslexic atheist believe in dog?

I'm insane
lou
 
Fab4ever said:
I disagree with DJL almost all the time - except in this case.
Freedom of speech and freedom of religion are two of the foundations of our society. As a person of faith, I find it encouraging that Big Kenny signs off the way he does. You may or may not agree with me. But it's his right to write whatever he wants.

Fab
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Me Too. I also am a believer. In fact, my meager recording set up exists to record Christian music.

When I recieve correspondence from my Christian friends, it is often signed in a similar manner to Big Kenny's. It may say "In Christ" or "In His service" or some other variant on this theme.
It's basically a "Yours Truly" with a reminder. A reminder that the Christian faith is very important to the writer.
I do not choose to use this myself. Sad fact is, there is a little part of me that is afraid that I could write something that might embarass the cause of Christ. (we've sure had a few of those over the years)

But I admire Big Kenny's stance, and support his right to take it.

And Kenny, if you're there: I ran across a guy in Indiana named Big Kenny who is an outrageously fine guitar player. He played a little with Larry Norman. Are you that guy?
 
And.......... Back to the subject at hand: I have mic'd vocals with two mics successfully by placing them close together, and one just afew inches behind the other. Maybe that breaks a few rules, but it worked. And gave me the character of two mics to blend to taste.

Tom
 
I guess maybe all us "Kenny's" are big. THere is one in Nashville , too. I use the two mic technique for a number of reasons, I am finding that closer is better, Thanks for all your comments. If I have offended anyone, I am sorry, but scripture is pretty clear to whom I should listen.
In His Name
Big Kenny
 
Just remember that whenever I or many other agnostics see a post on a non-religious forum promoting one's religious beliefs. we interpret it as the poster saying for all the world to see:

"I am a fucking idiot"

-------------------------------------
So you don't know anything about me, Big Kenny or Omtayslick, yet you have concluded we are idiots?

Not only is that okay, that's GREAT. At least, for the three of us. That's what Matthew 5:11 says.

Now, back to double tracked vocals:

I've never used two mics on one vocal, so I might check that out and see if it adds to the tonal variety I can get with my cheap Chinese condensers. I have done double tracking the old fashioned way, recording the same vocal passage twice and blending them, and found it to be a cool effect sometimes.
The Beatles used it all the time, particularly Lennon. Then they started using ADT, automatic double tracking, which didn't quite sound the same but is also pretty cool.

Anyone know how to reproduce ADT in the digital environment? Is it closer to chorus, delay, flange or something else?

Thanks,

Fab
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Big Kenny said:
I am recording a lead vocal with two mics and I seem to be having phase issues.
Should the mics be as close as possible to each other?
1 ft apart and a ft from the source?
Should I not try this at home.
In His Name
BK
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Go to the DPA site
http://www.dpamicrophones.com/eng_pub/
and look in microphone university - stereo techniques. They give brief reviews of mic placements. Even though they are for stereo, I'd think you could use them with different mics also, and avoid the phasing issues.

Sorry about the religious issues - for me it interjects an emotional component and just detracts from the objective exchange of relevant information. :)
 
Gidge said:
what if i say something about my dog....do i wonder if i offend people that dont like dogs......
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If you sign your posts "In my dog" you might offend some anti-bestiality folks out there.

Gidge said:


my signature on that OTHER bbs says
"it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

you may wanna think about that.....

in HIS name.....
MG
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If we lived by that doctrine we'd probably still be living in cold, dark caves.
 
Fab4ever said:
Not only is that okay, that's GREAT. At least, for the three of us. That's what Matthew 5:11 says.
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Hey, and a big Matthew 12:31 right back atcha. See you in heaven!
 
Back to the subject....Are we talking actual double tracking in reguards to 2 DIFFERENT takes blended as one...Or specificly double micing to 2 tracks?.....Just wondering....
 
What the fuck? In this case, seems those who think DJL are ruining the Microphone Forum are ruining the Microphone Forum with shit like this... Take it to the Cave!!! I ask that as a user just like ANYONE else and NOT the moderator of this forum.

If that's what Big Kenny decides to attach after every post, then that's what he decides to attach after every post.

Learn to respect each other!!!
 
Exactly, RE.

Double tracking generally refers to two DIFFERENT tracks recorded separately and then blended together. But there was some question of whether recording the SAME performance with two different mics would work. I've never tried it, but I might just to experiment.

Fab
 
I was referring to recording the same performance with two different mics. Just today I had great success with acoustic guitar by using the "one condenser upside down on top of the other" method. I then pan left and right and it really sounds wonderful. I auditioned a bunch of mics and the two that sounded best together were two of my last choices usually. Ended up with an at 3035 and my cheap little CAD m37 ( iwas going to get rid of it but it really sounds great)
I am still having issues with doing this on vocals. For some reason there continues to be a "swooshy" kind of phase thing I can't get rid of. And then theres the EQ thing which is driving me crazy but thats another post
In HIs Name
Big Kenny
 
Kenny you're not going to notice the phase problems until you sum to mono. Take your great sounding stereo guitar track and pan them both center. If the guitar suddenly sounds tinny and weak then you are having some phase cancellation going on. If the sound doesn't change all that much then you are good to go.

Some would say just ignore mono compatibility but many people listen to music with the speakers pretty close together and the music is essentially summed to mono then. If there is cancellation going on then those tracks will suddenly drop back in the mix.

Another issue is surround sound decoders. When they get a regular stereo signal and are set to surround sound they use the phase relationship of sounds to assign them to the outside speakers and sounds without any phase shifts or panning are sent to the center. If you have any phase cancellation going on it will make that sound very wide. If you do that with vocals or other important tracks there will be nothing important coming out of the center speaker and that's where you want the vocals to be.

To be more precise the center speaker plays the difference between the +L and -R channels. It's basically like the way a vocal remover works except in this case it's like a vocal seperator.
 
struberg said:
with digital audio processint, it is quite wurscht where you place the 2nd mic.

You only have to correct the phase by moving the 2nd track a few mili seconds in your pro tools or similar.

Sound makes approximately 330 m/s.

Or in other words sound needs 3ms for traveling 1m.

This is heavily simplified, but in most cases it will work.
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You can not correct a phase problem by time shifting, which is another thing than phase shifting.

For explanation, take some time and read the posts of Where02190, Nika and Paul Frindle in this thread:
http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=006365
 
To record the same vocal take from two different sources, why don't you try reamping it?

just a thought.

JK
~Keeper of the Devils playground
 
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