Michael Jones
New member
Define- cheap mic cables.
A
aaronscool
New member
Michael Jones said:
The kind that come free with something you bought. Or the less than $20 specials from any music store.
There is definitely an audible difference between these cables and higher quality cables. You can get higher quality cables in one of two ways. Pay about $40+ per cable or make your own using high quality components for less than $20 per cable. You can also buy some premade from people who use high quality components as well (Markertek makes some with Canare cable/Neutrik connectors for about $20 or so a cable).
The differences between bad cable and good cable are quite real. My guess is that companies like Mogami or Canare use copper wire with less impurities in it (i.e. better quality/more expensive copper) along with a slightly thicker gauge than the cheaper stuff. Put together the signal will lose less as it passes through the cable resulting in a cleaner (less dull) sounding signal.
crawdad
Dammit, Jim, Shut Up!
I believe, to a certain degree, in the advantage of premium cables. With guitar, the George L's definitely let more high signal pass. I have done no testing with low impedance mic cables, but plan to make one with Mogami 4 conductor wire just for fun.
Still, when I think of all the incredible recordings that have been made for decades, I highly doubt that super premium cable was used as a rule for all of them. Chances are pretty damn good that they used standard stuff coupled to good mics and pre's, then tweaked the rest with great ears and pro grade equipment.
Not to say that excellent wire can't improve on what exists--maybe it can. It is just one variable in the equation, though.
Still, when I think of all the incredible recordings that have been made for decades, I highly doubt that super premium cable was used as a rule for all of them. Chances are pretty damn good that they used standard stuff coupled to good mics and pre's, then tweaked the rest with great ears and pro grade equipment.
Not to say that excellent wire can't improve on what exists--maybe it can. It is just one variable in the equation, though.
L
lavoz
New member
Isn't your mic cable, or for that matter your guitar cable all part of the signal chain? So much has been made of a strong signal chain, so with that in mind, doesn't it make sense to use the best possible cables! Is there a difference between my Audioquest cables with Switchcraft terminals and my old Horizon cables? Yes! Quality cables, regardless of the name, are quality cables. Anything else is just a wink link in the chain.
Michael Jones
New member
So how about the "Studio Link" or "Studio Pro" line of cables from "Monster Cables"? Are those good, high quality cables?
TexRoadkill
Audio Bum
For what it's worth-
From 1989 to 1998 I made my living doing:
Pro Audo Sales
Touring Keyboard Tech
Audio Engineer
Recordist for Film and TV
Film/TV Production Coordinator
Film Post Production Coordinator
Film Score Composer
And I cant say I ever noticed a difference in sound from one working cable to another. In extreme situations with lots of intereference and long cable runs quality will make a difference. You will know if you need a better cable because the cheap one will sound like shit.
Never trust A/B tests at a music store. We used to cheat on them all the time. Always look for the BBE in the rack. It's a great tool to make something sound better in a test. Sometimes a little EQ boost on one of the channels will help also.
Unless I know I need a good cable for a tough application I will always buy cheap cables. Especially for home use.
From 1989 to 1998 I made my living doing:
Pro Audo Sales
Touring Keyboard Tech
Audio Engineer
Recordist for Film and TV
Film/TV Production Coordinator
Film Post Production Coordinator
Film Score Composer
And I cant say I ever noticed a difference in sound from one working cable to another. In extreme situations with lots of intereference and long cable runs quality will make a difference. You will know if you need a better cable because the cheap one will sound like shit.
Never trust A/B tests at a music store. We used to cheat on them all the time. Always look for the BBE in the rack. It's a great tool to make something sound better in a test. Sometimes a little EQ boost on one of the channels will help also.
Unless I know I need a good cable for a tough application I will always buy cheap cables. Especially for home use.
Michael Jones
New member
Great info Tex!
Since you used to work as a film scorer, have you got any tips for breaking into that field? People I should be meeting with, or cold calling? I've been pouinding the pavement with resumes and audio samples concentrating mainly on advertising firms.
In my studio, I can sync to video, and produce and encode surround sound matricies.
Any ideas would be appreciated.
Since you used to work as a film scorer, have you got any tips for breaking into that field? People I should be meeting with, or cold calling? I've been pouinding the pavement with resumes and audio samples concentrating mainly on advertising firms.
In my studio, I can sync to video, and produce and encode surround sound matricies.
Any ideas would be appreciated.
L
larrye
New member
for the most part good cable = reliable cable. There is nothing worse than pops due to bad connection, on a cable you just bought two weeks ago! There is usually a direct relationship between money spent and quality. BUT, some things are just overpriced, and there gets to be a point where the law of deminishing return sets in.
Copper is a good conducter, silver is a better conductor, gold is a better conductor yet. For the difference in quality of conduction it would take an idiot to use gold over copper. Not to mention the reliability of gold would be horrible.
Copper is a good conducter, silver is a better conductor, gold is a better conductor yet. For the difference in quality of conduction it would take an idiot to use gold over copper. Not to mention the reliability of gold would be horrible.
Michael Jones
New member
Well, connectors on higher end mics are gold plated.larrye said:
The reason for this is because gold doesn't oxidize, or tarnish like copper and silver do. The connectors on some cables are gold plated as well.
L
lavoz
New member
Hey Tex!
I respect your opinion...but I beg to differ. The quality of cable makes all the difference in the world! I have spent more than 20 years in radio and television...8 of those years I owned a video production company and while I am no engineer, (I only play one of TV) I have learned over the years that every part of system will only be as good as the next. The purities of the metal in any cable will determine a lot about your signal. On very high-end home theater equipment, for example, you will never see a cable like Monster being used. Why? The quality of the cooper, for example, is not as pure as those of an Audioquest or Kimble cable. I like to say...the smoother the road, the nicer the ride! Hey, if all you can afford is some Horizon, Monster, or what have, then that's all you can afford. But, by no means should you settle for anything other than the best, if your budget allows for it. Try this little test...take a standard piece of coax (RG59) and try to pass an HDTV signal through it...does it work? No! Just some food for thought. Oh, another thing, if you own a decent home audio system...invest a few dollars in some high-end cable...you'll hear the difference!
I respect your opinion...but I beg to differ. The quality of cable makes all the difference in the world! I have spent more than 20 years in radio and television...8 of those years I owned a video production company and while I am no engineer, (I only play one of TV) I have learned over the years that every part of system will only be as good as the next. The purities of the metal in any cable will determine a lot about your signal. On very high-end home theater equipment, for example, you will never see a cable like Monster being used. Why? The quality of the cooper, for example, is not as pure as those of an Audioquest or Kimble cable. I like to say...the smoother the road, the nicer the ride! Hey, if all you can afford is some Horizon, Monster, or what have, then that's all you can afford. But, by no means should you settle for anything other than the best, if your budget allows for it. Try this little test...take a standard piece of coax (RG59) and try to pass an HDTV signal through it...does it work? No! Just some food for thought. Oh, another thing, if you own a decent home audio system...invest a few dollars in some high-end cable...you'll hear the difference!
L
larrye
New member
I have alot of GOLD PLATED connectors in my so called studio, some are from Radio Shack. Gold is much to soft a metal to use as a plating in a conector. There is SOME gold in the coating but very little.
I still say if you are on a budget the money spent on $5 to $10/foot cable would be better spent elsewhere.
TV??? Question- on what kind of cable does a cable company use to send HDTV signals to a person's home? Does this mean that all the cable companies are going to have to replace all of their old cable that was installed ten years ago, prior to HDTV?
Just a question.
Thanks,
Larry
I still say if you are on a budget the money spent on $5 to $10/foot cable would be better spent elsewhere.
TV??? Question- on what kind of cable does a cable company use to send HDTV signals to a person's home? Does this mean that all the cable companies are going to have to replace all of their old cable that was installed ten years ago, prior to HDTV?
Just a question.
Thanks,
Larry
TexRoadkill
Audio Bum
Lavoz - I'm willing to admit that I may be missing out but I just dont buy into the tech aspects and although I have never really done a scientific A/B test I have just never noticed a difference. We used to use high quality mic cords for the boom operator because the cable was always getting run over by carts and crossing 220V AC lines. In most of my applications I was too concerned with passing airplanes and gennie noise to notice a slight increase in transients. Maybe I will give one a really critical try and see if I can hear the difference.
Your video comparison isnt really fair. I will put a cheap RGB signal up against expensive RGB on a short run but distance is really where the expensive stuff helps. I used to do a lot of corporate AV work and for long cable runs you really need quality.
I agree that time alignment sounds like BS. If BBE really aligned everything then that would be all you needed. If you record a time alligned signal do you need to allign any more? Can you allign too far and make the highs happen too fast?
Michael- Sounds like you're on the right track. If you need some projects to get your foot in the door try offering your services to some film students. They will usually let you do whatever you want and love you for it. They also make more artistic stuff so you can really show what you can do without having to be 'commercial'.
Your video comparison isnt really fair. I will put a cheap RGB signal up against expensive RGB on a short run but distance is really where the expensive stuff helps. I used to do a lot of corporate AV work and for long cable runs you really need quality.
I agree that time alignment sounds like BS. If BBE really aligned everything then that would be all you needed. If you record a time alligned signal do you need to allign any more? Can you allign too far and make the highs happen too fast?
Michael- Sounds like you're on the right track. If you need some projects to get your foot in the door try offering your services to some film students. They will usually let you do whatever you want and love you for it. They also make more artistic stuff so you can really show what you can do without having to be 'commercial'.
J
Joe E
New member
I certainly don't want to argue with anyone, but heres what the monster cable test consisted of.
Several of us brought in our favorite cables and mic's. We set a channel on a counsel and set it to sound what we thought was good for a quick test. We then unpluged our cables and pluged in the monsters cables in the same signal path. The difference was night and day, with regards to clearity and over all signal. We then recorded a short take on one track of a MDM and then switched back to our own cable in the same channel, and recored a take on another channel of the MDM. (nothing up the sleeves). And there was a large difference.
One of the recording engineers bought the studio mic cable on the spot and took back to his business. He imediately started using it on his current session. When he went to do vocal over dubs with what was recorded earlier, no matter what he did he could not get the two to match. (hes a stickler for detail and writes very detailed notes on settings and such). He ended up re-recording most of the takes with the new cable.
I understand the sceptisism, but use your ears and judge for yourselfs. You won't go back, no matter which brand you choose.
Several of us brought in our favorite cables and mic's. We set a channel on a counsel and set it to sound what we thought was good for a quick test. We then unpluged our cables and pluged in the monsters cables in the same signal path. The difference was night and day, with regards to clearity and over all signal. We then recorded a short take on one track of a MDM and then switched back to our own cable in the same channel, and recored a take on another channel of the MDM. (nothing up the sleeves). And there was a large difference.
One of the recording engineers bought the studio mic cable on the spot and took back to his business. He imediately started using it on his current session. When he went to do vocal over dubs with what was recorded earlier, no matter what he did he could not get the two to match. (hes a stickler for detail and writes very detailed notes on settings and such). He ended up re-recording most of the takes with the new cable.
I understand the sceptisism, but use your ears and judge for yourselfs. You won't go back, no matter which brand you choose.
L
lavoz
New member
larrye,
Chances are, if your area cable company hasn't replaced any of their trunk lines, amps, lines into to your house, they have plans to. HD requires plenty of bandwidth...the 59 cable can carry about a third of the signal required for HD.
Tex,
With all do respect my fellow Arizonia, there is a difference. On "loud" and often not very good rock and roll, chances are you will not hear a difference. It is on more subtle passages of classical, jazz and acoustical music you'll have a tendency to hear a difference in quality cables.
While your eyes may not see the difference of RGB cables (cheap vs quality cables), put that signal into a waveform monitor, or a vectorscope and I think you'd be admazed. I agree, over long runs, there is no way you can maintain a clean signal with inexpessive cable...
I just can't see how anyone could go out and spend $200, $300 or even $1,000 on a mic and think a $10, $15, or even $20 cable will be the right cable to use in their system. Maybe its just me!!!!
Chances are, if your area cable company hasn't replaced any of their trunk lines, amps, lines into to your house, they have plans to. HD requires plenty of bandwidth...the 59 cable can carry about a third of the signal required for HD.
Tex,
With all do respect my fellow Arizonia, there is a difference. On "loud" and often not very good rock and roll, chances are you will not hear a difference. It is on more subtle passages of classical, jazz and acoustical music you'll have a tendency to hear a difference in quality cables.
While your eyes may not see the difference of RGB cables (cheap vs quality cables), put that signal into a waveform monitor, or a vectorscope and I think you'd be admazed. I agree, over long runs, there is no way you can maintain a clean signal with inexpessive cable...
I just can't see how anyone could go out and spend $200, $300 or even $1,000 on a mic and think a $10, $15, or even $20 cable will be the right cable to use in their system. Maybe its just me!!!!
J
Joe E
New member
lavoz said:
Well said!! I guess that is really the whole point isn't it?
drstawl
Banned
>I just can't see how anyone could go out and spend $200, $300 or even $1,000 on a mic and think a $10, $15, or even $20 cable will be the right cable to use in their system. Maybe its just me!!!!
That's the point I think. You can't just pull a number out of the air, find cable that costs a certain invented proportion of what you paid for some other stage(s) in your signal chain and expect that you got anything but burned.
FOCUS.
Focus on the actual value of any stage in your signal chain.
And the relative benefits of throwing dollars at a problem depending on where you are on the recording food chain.
That's the point I think. You can't just pull a number out of the air, find cable that costs a certain invented proportion of what you paid for some other stage(s) in your signal chain and expect that you got anything but burned.
FOCUS.
Focus on the actual value of any stage in your signal chain.
And the relative benefits of throwing dollars at a problem depending on where you are on the recording food chain.
P
PinkStrat
New member
I've had three Monster cables break on me--the center of the plugs came right out! Hmmmm, not too good if you ask me [for the amount of bread I spent]. FYI The cables broke very soon after purchase so I figured if three broke something isn't right with the Monster brand. The other thing that chaps my hide is having a genre specific cable for Rock Jazz & even Country. Everyone has differing opinions of what tones belong in which musical genre so that is quite blurry.... Hey, .Eric Johnson's sound might need their "Jazz" version guitar cable--his tone is pretty dark...go figure? A bunch of marketing BS IMHO.I think it's better just to use what sounds right to your own ears & call it a day? 
mixmkr
we don't need rest!!
lavoz said:
so...how much should my guitar pick cost on my $1500 guitar......on my $500 gtr....
and how 'bout the pick cost on that insanly priced '59 Flying V? eh??? is that where you get that pick holder on the mic stand??
O
ozraves
New member
My electronics guy, who has been doing this since the 1950s, tells me that a good cable is a good cable. He likes Ernie Ball mic and instrument cables among others.
Some people I respect like the Blue Kiwi.
Some people I respect like the Blue Kiwi.
W
wilkee
New member
I always use quality connectors and cable both on my Pro gear and on my home system in fact the cables on my Hi-Fi cost more than the amplifier itself and I still hear no diff. between these cables and the cheap ones.
For what it is worth I have always felt that the important part of any sound reproducing system is the tranducers at either end ( Mics & Loudspeakers) followed by the Electronics with Cables coming WAY down the list.
I'm with Tex on this one
P.S. the expensive cables on my HI-Fi were a gift?
For what it is worth I have always felt that the important part of any sound reproducing system is the tranducers at either end ( Mics & Loudspeakers) followed by the Electronics with Cables coming WAY down the list.
I'm with Tex on this one
P.S. the expensive cables on my HI-Fi were a gift?