D
DJL
Self Banned
theletterq said:
Oh ok, thanks for clearing that up.
Oh ok, thanks for clearing that up.
T
Take Two
New member
I'm not sure what to make of you guys. Are you always like this when a new guy asks a question?
Actually, at least two of the radio stations I worked at between 1976 and 1987 had used both the Sennheiser and the EV microphones. I am sure it was no conincidence, since the chief engineers were good friends. Even the signal chain to the transmitter was similar, both using the "state of the art" Orban compressor technology.
Is that the answer to the question of which condenser mics I have used? This is the best answer I can give you. I recall the unique Neumann design from many of the studios I visited over the years. The stand out to me. I remember hearing the the tube preamps were prized by more than o0ne engineer, and that the transistorized phantom power supplies were not as good. Sometimes, the engineer will say that what looks like a Neumann to me is really a microphone that is made to look like a Neumann. Not being a recording engineer, I was sometimes wrong.
Frankly, when I show up for a job, I have a lot on my plate already: a nervous client, an overworked producer, and copy that needs a great deal of interpretation. Ususally, there is very little direction and I have to figure out what the client wants, simply because he or she doesn't know what they want.
So, to round up this acrimonious thread: many on this BBS have said positive things about the Studio Products mics, and one poster in this thread directed me to a website. You have said the prices are good. Thank you. Are they better, for they quality of the product, than other similar mics, such as the Marshall MXLV67G? Is the tube mic mentioned a good one? Am I better off with a C3? Lets hear some opinions. And No, I am not now nor have I ever been associated with any equipment amanufacturer. I DID help build two studios: one for recording and one for broadcast, in 1973 and 1984, respectively.
Is there some kind of partisan debate here over manufacturers of dynamic and condenser mics? Are people who sell equipment surruptitiously steering people toward their equipment? Are you guys just working too hard?
Actually, at least two of the radio stations I worked at between 1976 and 1987 had used both the Sennheiser and the EV microphones. I am sure it was no conincidence, since the chief engineers were good friends. Even the signal chain to the transmitter was similar, both using the "state of the art" Orban compressor technology.
Is that the answer to the question of which condenser mics I have used? This is the best answer I can give you. I recall the unique Neumann design from many of the studios I visited over the years. The stand out to me. I remember hearing the the tube preamps were prized by more than o0ne engineer, and that the transistorized phantom power supplies were not as good. Sometimes, the engineer will say that what looks like a Neumann to me is really a microphone that is made to look like a Neumann. Not being a recording engineer, I was sometimes wrong.
Frankly, when I show up for a job, I have a lot on my plate already: a nervous client, an overworked producer, and copy that needs a great deal of interpretation. Ususally, there is very little direction and I have to figure out what the client wants, simply because he or she doesn't know what they want.
So, to round up this acrimonious thread: many on this BBS have said positive things about the Studio Products mics, and one poster in this thread directed me to a website. You have said the prices are good. Thank you. Are they better, for they quality of the product, than other similar mics, such as the Marshall MXLV67G? Is the tube mic mentioned a good one? Am I better off with a C3? Lets hear some opinions. And No, I am not now nor have I ever been associated with any equipment amanufacturer. I DID help build two studios: one for recording and one for broadcast, in 1973 and 1984, respectively.
Is there some kind of partisan debate here over manufacturers of dynamic and condenser mics? Are people who sell equipment surruptitiously steering people toward their equipment? Are you guys just working too hard?
T
theletterq
New member
Take Two said:
I don't think you want to open that can of worms.
Probably.
D
DJL
Self Banned
Take Two, please except my apology.... it's just that we've been bombarded with trick type advertisements from PMI for too long on this BBS and many of us are just sick and tired of it.
Again, I apologize... please forgive me. Thanks
Again, I apologize... please forgive me. Thanks
D
DJL
Self Banned
"Are they better, for they quality of the product, than other similar mics, such as the Marshall MXLV67G? Is the tube mic mentioned a good one? Am I better off with a C3? Lets hear some opinions."
I thought we answered that already...... however, if you already really have you mind set on an SP, just send Justin Hyatt a PM... he's a memeber of this BBS and a really nice guy and I'm sure he can help you.
I thought we answered that already...... however, if you already really have you mind set on an SP, just send Justin Hyatt a PM... he's a memeber of this BBS and a really nice guy and I'm sure he can help you.
Last edited:
T
theletterq
New member
Take Two,
Since you mentioned that you thought the 421 was too bright, I would stay away from the C1. If you want a condenser, either the Studio Projects B1 or the MXL V67 (probably smoother than the B1 which is considered for the most part fairly "neutral") would be the way to go.
Other options would be the CAD M177 or M37 - two low cost, smooth, neutral condensers.
Since you mentioned that you thought the 421 was too bright, I would stay away from the C1. If you want a condenser, either the Studio Projects B1 or the MXL V67 (probably smoother than the B1 which is considered for the most part fairly "neutral") would be the way to go.
Other options would be the CAD M177 or M37 - two low cost, smooth, neutral condensers.
T
theletterq
New member
Take Two said:
Do you have any use for multiple patterns at all? That's the thing with all this...more questions usually breed more questions!
T
Take Two
New member
Okay, okay.
While I was typing my last post, my question was being answered, both here and in a PM. The 67G gets the most high marks. No SP mics in my future, and that's fine.
No, I have no particular use for a dual pattern that I can think of. Just thought it might be a bargain, and if so, It might be worth using it, or at least owning it.
I'll check on Ebay for that 441.
*** several minutes later***
Okay, I had the posting "window" open here for quite a while, during which time I wrote the above words, and took a phone call in response to a PM I received, and also answered. It cleared up lot of questions up for me.
I now know who this Alan guy is that you are referring to.
Now, if he makes a product, and recommends it for the correct application, is that necessarily a bad thing? Is the mention of his company now prohibited? Believe me, if someone who sells avaition headphones was on the aviation BBS that I frequent, and I thought his product wasn't any good, I'd say so. On the other hand, if it worked well for a certain purpose or budget, I'd have to say that his mentioning of the product might be both appropriate and welcome.
While I might be somewhat skeptical of someone who ALWAYS recommends his product for EVERY application, whether it was appropriate or not, I can't say that I'd let that become a guiding force for every post that mentions his product.
And no, I don't work for him, and if I want a mic that is brighter than a 67G, I might consider his product. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
That being said, I have sufficient info to ponder and prices to compare, and preparations to make.
Thanks.
While I was typing my last post, my question was being answered, both here and in a PM. The 67G gets the most high marks. No SP mics in my future, and that's fine.
No, I have no particular use for a dual pattern that I can think of. Just thought it might be a bargain, and if so, It might be worth using it, or at least owning it.
I'll check on Ebay for that 441.
*** several minutes later***
Okay, I had the posting "window" open here for quite a while, during which time I wrote the above words, and took a phone call in response to a PM I received, and also answered. It cleared up lot of questions up for me.
I now know who this Alan guy is that you are referring to.
Now, if he makes a product, and recommends it for the correct application, is that necessarily a bad thing? Is the mention of his company now prohibited? Believe me, if someone who sells avaition headphones was on the aviation BBS that I frequent, and I thought his product wasn't any good, I'd say so. On the other hand, if it worked well for a certain purpose or budget, I'd have to say that his mentioning of the product might be both appropriate and welcome.
While I might be somewhat skeptical of someone who ALWAYS recommends his product for EVERY application, whether it was appropriate or not, I can't say that I'd let that become a guiding force for every post that mentions his product.
And no, I don't work for him, and if I want a mic that is brighter than a 67G, I might consider his product. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
That being said, I have sufficient info to ponder and prices to compare, and preparations to make.
Thanks.
D
DJL
Self Banned
NO NO NO NO NO... if I thought that an SP mic was what would work best for what you need I would have recommend it.
For example.... I think the Studio Projects B1 mic kicks ass on my Fender Twin amp.
For example.... I think the Studio Projects B1 mic kicks ass on my Fender Twin amp.
darrin_h2000
Banned
Let me apologize for DJL and what has become of this forum, I remember a year ago when several newbies were chased off just because thier questions were just like the typical questions but about a certain brand of gear.
I was ashamed of what we were doing then and I hope that doesnt start again....Right DJL?!?!?!
I was ashamed of what we were doing then and I hope that doesnt start again....Right DJL?!?!?!
T
Take Two
New member
Good.
A number of posters have suggested ALL of the mics we have discussed. That's why I though it was prudent to ask about the three "closeout" mics on the basis of price, all other things being equal. While a "bargain" aircraft might be hard to find, a "bargain" mic might not be.
I'm off to Ebay to search for the 441, just for kicks.
A number of posters have suggested ALL of the mics we have discussed. That's why I though it was prudent to ask about the three "closeout" mics on the basis of price, all other things being equal. While a "bargain" aircraft might be hard to find, a "bargain" mic might not be.
I'm off to Ebay to search for the 441, just for kicks.
D
DJL
Self Banned
darrin_h2000 said:
I agree, and I did say I was sorry..... but, there for a while I felt I was being toyed with or everything was going in one ear and out the other.
With the information he gave and for what he wanted this mic for, I tried to lead him to a mic that might work best for his needs.
However, I stlll think he should go with the EV RE20... because he already knows that he like's that mic... and second runner up would be something like the Shure SM-7 and I only say 2nd runner up because he hasn't heard it yet and therefore doesn't already know that he like's it.
Then it seemed like he wanted a budget LDC mic but didn't like too bright of a mic's... that's why I lead him to the V67G over the C1.
I've got to tell you........ it's not easy trying to help someone find the right mic for them with limited info and being over the internet appose to in the studio.
Last edited:
R
Richard Monroe
Well-known member
Yo again, take 2. DJL is referring to Alan Hyatt, the CEO of PMI Audio, of which Studio Projects is a subsidiary. I will keep the history lesson brief. DJL and Chessrock have a problem with Alan's management style, and consider him a boorish spammer. Alan thinks Chessrock and probably DJL are twits and trolls.
For the record, I have no affiliation whatsoever with any of the parties involved. I own a number of PMI Audio's products, and am a generally satisfied customer. I also have no problem with Chessrock or DJL, and I consider my relations with all of the involved parties positive. Like you, I'm mostly interested in the gear.
Of the Studio Projects mics, the only ones I'm personally familiar with are B-1, C-3, and C-4. The B-1 I consider a neutral workhorse mic, good for many instruments from guitar to percussion. I do not use it personally for a vocal mic. I consider C-3 a rather good main vocal mic, one of the best in its price range. The C-4's are really accurate neutral small diaphragm mics that are very good on acoustic instruments. For street prices, check 8th street.com and macmidimusic.com and compare. Occasionally you'll do a little better on ebay.
For the work you are doing, I believe a great dynamic is the best choice, but it needs a really good preamp, which doesn't come cheap. If you're going with a less expensive preamp, you will do better to select a good cheap condenser. As DJL said, if you think a Sennheiser MD421 is too bright, you probably won't love the C-1. You really might consider a couple of cheap condensers with different sounds, to give yourself some options if you go that route. Among my favorites are Marshall MXL V67 and Oktava MK319. The 319 is darker, and really cool for certain female voiceovers. I still believe that your best sound will come from a great dynamic and a great preamp, but if money is an issue, a pretty cheap preamp will sound pretty good with a cheap condenser. The V67 and M Audio DMP3 will work pretty well together.
As far as the politics go, I think Alan, Chessrock, and DJL are all honest people with a passion for recording that just mix like vinegar and baking soda, and I do my best to stay on the sidelines of their pissing wars.-Richie
For the record, I have no affiliation whatsoever with any of the parties involved. I own a number of PMI Audio's products, and am a generally satisfied customer. I also have no problem with Chessrock or DJL, and I consider my relations with all of the involved parties positive. Like you, I'm mostly interested in the gear.
Of the Studio Projects mics, the only ones I'm personally familiar with are B-1, C-3, and C-4. The B-1 I consider a neutral workhorse mic, good for many instruments from guitar to percussion. I do not use it personally for a vocal mic. I consider C-3 a rather good main vocal mic, one of the best in its price range. The C-4's are really accurate neutral small diaphragm mics that are very good on acoustic instruments. For street prices, check 8th street.com and macmidimusic.com and compare. Occasionally you'll do a little better on ebay.
For the work you are doing, I believe a great dynamic is the best choice, but it needs a really good preamp, which doesn't come cheap. If you're going with a less expensive preamp, you will do better to select a good cheap condenser. As DJL said, if you think a Sennheiser MD421 is too bright, you probably won't love the C-1. You really might consider a couple of cheap condensers with different sounds, to give yourself some options if you go that route. Among my favorites are Marshall MXL V67 and Oktava MK319. The 319 is darker, and really cool for certain female voiceovers. I still believe that your best sound will come from a great dynamic and a great preamp, but if money is an issue, a pretty cheap preamp will sound pretty good with a cheap condenser. The V67 and M Audio DMP3 will work pretty well together.
As far as the politics go, I think Alan, Chessrock, and DJL are all honest people with a passion for recording that just mix like vinegar and baking soda, and I do my best to stay on the sidelines of their pissing wars.-Richie
D
DJL
Self Banned
Thank you Richie.....I thought of the Oktava MC319 too, however because it's an off-axis type mic and because of what he wanted this mic for I didn't recommend it..... but you never know, maybe it is right up his alley, and the price sure is cheap enough.
T
Take Two
New member
I do like the RE-20. It is probably one of the best mics available.
For broadcasting.
In fact, it is the "golden EIB microphone" that Rush Limbaugh mentions. EV sent him a special golden plated version of the mic.
I have found that in order to highlight the range and depth of my voice, the studio condenser mics to a fine job.
Granted, when I did radio the voice I heard in my headsets (AKG 240's...gotta buy another pair) had been up to the roof, microwaved over to the Roxboro antenna farm, through the boost and compression/limiter chain, broadcast on our tower with 50,000watts, picked up again by another antenna on a FM radio in the engineer's office, and then piped back into my board, so I didn't really sound like I do when I'm recorded. I had been "altered" quite a bit.
Even so, I have a real affinity for the precision and warmth of a good condenser mic. When I was first learning about this stuff, you had to pay big bucks for a U47 and the power supply to go with it. Now, I might be able to approximate that sound with a 67G. At the current price, that is a certifiable bargain to me.
As far as the other stuff goes, life is short friends. We're only here for a little while. Make the most of it. Most of you, myself included, have been able to benefit from Harvey and his vast knowlege and experience. Heck, the man was alive before WWII even started. He's old enough to be MY father, and no doubt old enough to be a grandfather or great grandfather to many of the posters here. You don't often find people who are willing to share what they know. The bona fide expert is a rare and valuable thing. In aviation, sometimes I find a high time Delta captain who still loves to train students, or a least go putting around the pattern on a weekend in a Cessna. Trust me, you don't find this every day. When I do find it, I treasure it, like the lunch I had a couple years ago with my father, a former RCAF navigator, and his friend, a B24 Liberator pilot. I wish I could take that hour and put it in a bottle. Apologies to the late Jim Croce.
The point is this. You have a forum here to talk about mics, sound, and recording . There is no reason under heaven why anyone here needs to go off on a tangent about anyone or anything, except how great a particular piece of equipment helps to record a sound. If you disagree, there is no reason to be disagreeable.
I don't think you can talk Harvey into returning to this forum, and that is a very real loss to all of us. It deserves some personal reflection, and an understanding of how a disagreement can spiral out of control and take on a life of its own. Just like in Forbidden Planet it can become a monster that is stronger than any one of us can fight. It is our dark side, come to life.
Its a shame. I hope it is a lesson in life, one that can make an impression like no other kind can. From my expereince, the lessons that cost the most are the ones I remember the best.
Just my two cents.
For broadcasting.
In fact, it is the "golden EIB microphone" that Rush Limbaugh mentions. EV sent him a special golden plated version of the mic.
I have found that in order to highlight the range and depth of my voice, the studio condenser mics to a fine job.
Granted, when I did radio the voice I heard in my headsets (AKG 240's...gotta buy another pair) had been up to the roof, microwaved over to the Roxboro antenna farm, through the boost and compression/limiter chain, broadcast on our tower with 50,000watts, picked up again by another antenna on a FM radio in the engineer's office, and then piped back into my board, so I didn't really sound like I do when I'm recorded. I had been "altered" quite a bit.
Even so, I have a real affinity for the precision and warmth of a good condenser mic. When I was first learning about this stuff, you had to pay big bucks for a U47 and the power supply to go with it. Now, I might be able to approximate that sound with a 67G. At the current price, that is a certifiable bargain to me.
As far as the other stuff goes, life is short friends. We're only here for a little while. Make the most of it. Most of you, myself included, have been able to benefit from Harvey and his vast knowlege and experience. Heck, the man was alive before WWII even started. He's old enough to be MY father, and no doubt old enough to be a grandfather or great grandfather to many of the posters here. You don't often find people who are willing to share what they know. The bona fide expert is a rare and valuable thing. In aviation, sometimes I find a high time Delta captain who still loves to train students, or a least go putting around the pattern on a weekend in a Cessna. Trust me, you don't find this every day. When I do find it, I treasure it, like the lunch I had a couple years ago with my father, a former RCAF navigator, and his friend, a B24 Liberator pilot. I wish I could take that hour and put it in a bottle. Apologies to the late Jim Croce.
The point is this. You have a forum here to talk about mics, sound, and recording . There is no reason under heaven why anyone here needs to go off on a tangent about anyone or anything, except how great a particular piece of equipment helps to record a sound. If you disagree, there is no reason to be disagreeable.
I don't think you can talk Harvey into returning to this forum, and that is a very real loss to all of us. It deserves some personal reflection, and an understanding of how a disagreement can spiral out of control and take on a life of its own. Just like in Forbidden Planet it can become a monster that is stronger than any one of us can fight. It is our dark side, come to life.
Its a shame. I hope it is a lesson in life, one that can make an impression like no other kind can. From my expereince, the lessons that cost the most are the ones I remember the best.
Just my two cents.
Last edited:
D
DJL
Self Banned
Take Two...... your last post just hit me in the heart like a ton of bricks and is bring tears to my eyes... if I knew how to get Harvey back to this BBS mic board I would do it in a frickin second. With that said I'm going into the studio iso booth and screaming my head off for a while..... I'll see you all later.
T
Take Two
New member
While I was writing, Richie had this:
That's sort of the conclusion I have reached, too.
I'm not familiar with the Oktava MC319. Who handles it? I haven't seen it on the sites I've visited.
At the risk of starting another flaming session (that won't happen, right?) has anyone used the VTB1 preamp?
That's sort of the conclusion I have reached, too.
I'm not familiar with the Oktava MC319. Who handles it? I haven't seen it on the sites I've visited.
At the risk of starting another flaming session (that won't happen, right?) has anyone used the VTB1 preamp?
Slackmaster2K
Gone
I would very much appreciate it if everyone involved with this thread would try to remain calm and focus on the actual subjects at hand. If anyone wants to discuss what does and does not constitute spam, or anything of the sort, please see one of the many threads in the cave.
Take Two, please understand that some weird stuff went down on the BBS this week, and your post has a familiar feel to it. Everyone is kind of edgy, so please don't take anything too personally. No, most people aren't questioned like this when they come to the board.
To give this place a chance to cool down, all furthur discussion about who might be who and whether Alan was mistreated and blah blah will be moved to the cave.
Thanks for understanding, everyone.
Slackmaster 2000
Take Two, please understand that some weird stuff went down on the BBS this week, and your post has a familiar feel to it. Everyone is kind of edgy, so please don't take anything too personally. No, most people aren't questioned like this when they come to the board.
To give this place a chance to cool down, all furthur discussion about who might be who and whether Alan was mistreated and blah blah will be moved to the cave.
Thanks for understanding, everyone.
Slackmaster 2000
T
Take Two
New member
Sounds good to me.
I just checked Ebay for the Oktava 319. 79 dollars. Has anyone used one?
How about the VTB1 preamp?
I just checked Ebay for the Oktava 319. 79 dollars. Has anyone used one?
How about the VTB1 preamp?
Last edited:
R
Richard Monroe
Well-known member
Oktava MK319 is available at Guitar Center or their on line arm, Musician's Friend. Check return policy, as quality control is an issue, although overestimated. In other words, they're better than they used to be. It's not the right mic for everything, but it is the right mic for some things, and at the price point, it's worth a listen. I tend to use it for backing vocals, especially to scrub off some of the piercing highs from a bright female voice. However, paradoxically, it might work well to bring out the lows in a deep voice like yours. For the price of admission, it's a worthy option to have in a vocal mic selection. For some things, I use it in preference to B.L.U.E. Kiwi and Rode NTK, which are both pretty serious main vocal mics.