Maybe you should read this

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noisedude

noisedude

New member
here's an interesting concept for some of you. it's not a flame or an angry rant. it comes from frustration at the treatment of some people on these boards, but this one in particular.

when someone comes on and asks what the best they can get for a certain price, that's because that's how much they have to spend or are willing to pay. *home*recording is by definition a hobby and those of us with limited incomes just want to have the most fun we can with the money we've got.

i appreciate the knowledge and experience of people like chessrock, DJL, comingsecond etc etc, but actually when i ask a question i don't expect to be treated like some retard who's asking to buy a hammer to turn a screw. that is not a direct criticism of any of these posters i have named, so calm down. i'm not interested in a flame war.

the difference between an SP mic (and i deplore their marketing tactics as much as the next man) and one costing hundreds or thousands more is actually .... gasp .... very LITTLE.

yes to your trained and experienced ears and your many years of owning fabously expensive equipment there is a definite difference but, guess what, most people on here don't actually care! they want the best they want for their money or if there's something for a bit more they should save up for then suggest it to them. there's no point in telling someone recording in their bedroom to go out investing thousands in very top-end mics and pres when they're in an untreated room with cheap monitors.

there's no need either in telling a bedroom musician that they're stupid for wanting something either cheap or inexpensive. share your knowledge with us, share your insights and well-rigoured opinions, but please spare us your toys-out-of-the-pram wailing about remedials who 'foolishly' dare to join a home recording BBS and then ask what the best cheap LDC they can get is. that seems a perfectly reasonable question to ask, yes, is would help if they read old threads but patience, as they say, is actually something you should have anyway if you're into sound engineering.

home recordists are mostly musicians who've spent years honing their skills and now want to put them on tape/disc for posterity and to enhance their musicianship. it's fun. it's supposed to be fun.

finally, i would encourage those of you who feel i am being unreasonable to go out and actually talk to real people the way you do on here. you may incur a bloody nose or find you have few friends. let's have a bit of respect all-round. it's what the human world is built on.

thanks for reading and thanks to all of you who have helped me either directly or in your older posts :-) you make the internet work guys.
 
I think there is a lot of truth in your post. The difference between a MXL 990 and a Blue Kiwi is barely perceptible to most listeners.

However, if the extra 15 percent improvement in sound that you get with an ultra-high end signal chain is worth thousands and thousands of dollars to you, by all means pursue it.

I'm pretty happy with the gear I have now, and I'll be happy making records with it and exploring its capabilities for years and years and years. That's not to say that the gear lust is completely gone. I spend a few hours a month drooling over the mics and pres at sites like www.mercenary.com, www.telefunkenusa.com, and www.gefell-mics.com, but unless I get a dramatically better job I will never own any of that gear.

My NTK is, perhaps, the best mic I'll ever own. What's great about the technological advances made in home recording over the last few years is that prosumer gear like the NTK is sufficient to make records that I'm happy with, and that's all that matters.
 
Hey! I said pay for a hooker and god damn it I stand by that statement!!!



Things are getting too tense in here. Maybe we all need to get some lovin!
 
cominginsecond said:
I think there is a lot of truth in your post. The difference between a MXL 990 and a Blue Kiwi is barely perceptible to most listeners.

The difference between Aretha Franklin and Christina Aguilera is barely perceptible to most listeners too.


Sorry, I just had to throw that in.
 
rvdsm said:
The difference between Aretha Franklin and Christina Aguilera is barely perceptible to most listeners too.


Sorry, I just had to throw that in.

Good point. :) There's a difference, though, between perception in terms of good taste and perception of objective criteria like frequency content, distortion, and signal to noise ratio.
 
Well said noisedude... the majority of people here are here either to learn or to teach... hopefully we can keep it that way. :)
 
i hear ya

i think part of the problem here is that some people are thinskinned or express themselves poorly in writing. or maybe they've got a really low budget and don't want to hear what some folks have to say about the various pieces in their signal chain (and maybe they're thinskinned too). no one running all beheringer gear wants to hear "all behringer gear is crap", regardless or whether or not it is.

however, if someone wants to upgrade something, they really need to look at the whole chain and the way everything interacts. and they need to understand that. it's not as simple as "i need a new mic", b/c you really might not--you might need a new pre instead, which may help MANY or ALL of your mics. who knows. when people ask for info, they should be willing to accept all opinions/views without getting pissed off about them and whether or not they have to answer follow-up questions. that's the only way to possibly dig deeper into an issue or determine which the best route is. getting advice goes both ways--you sometimes have to want to hear things you don't want to hear.

also, a lot of issues and arguments could be avoided if people would search before they post. for instance, when someone asks "what's the best mic for under $X", they could almost put that entire phrase in the search and get tons of hits. if people would just read the FAQ and check the newbie area (or heaven forbid lurk and read for a couple months) first, this would be a happier place.........

and part of it is that some folks have personal agendas and biases and can't get past them (or put them aside) long enough to talk level about gear. that just plain sucks. leave your agendas at home, we're tired of em (b/c we HEAR about em all the time). YES we all know that alan hyatt's business practices around here and some of his posts here were sketchy and sometimes quite unprofessional. AND we all also know that his company makes some decent mics available at a previously unheard of price. the product (in terms of the B1 and to some extents the vtb1) outshines the sleaze, IMO. you have a right to make your own mind up, but we're all really tired of the crusades.

especially when a product that could REALLY help a home recordist make better recordings is concerned. i'd love to use MD421's, 441's and Blues and Neumanns everywhere running into an API lunchbox rather than "resorting" to B1s and sm57s and 603s into a wackie, but that's not realistic for a lot of people. i know my gear, and i know its limitations. along those lines, the people who are running an sm57 into a soundblaster with no mic pre and are getting shitty results have no right to get pissed off when told "no kidding that it sounds like crap." there are fundamentals, and if you don't know em, you have no right to get pissed off when people more knowledgeable than you take a heavy hand in the mic or rack forum. that's why there's a newbie area.

to be honest, i'm glad this place isn't full of people like me, all working with wackies and sm57s and B1s and whatnot, b/c i'd never learn anything. that's why i'm glad we've got people with so much more experience around here. i WANT to hear about the gear i aspire to own while i'm working within my budget--it's small steps for me.....and i can completely understand why some of them have bad attitudes, too.

i mean, after only a year on this forum as a registered member (longer as an unregistered lurker), i too am painfully tired of seeing the same threads and arguments time and time again. my christmas wish for this forum is that if you have something postive or negative to add, please do so....but please do so in a mature fashion.


wade
 
noisedude said:
there's no need either in telling a bedroom musician that they're stupid for wanting something either cheap or inexpensive. share your knowledge with us, share your insights and well-rigoured opinions, but please spare us your toys-out-of-the-pram wailing about remedials who 'foolishly' dare to join a home recording BBS and then ask what the best cheap LDC they can get is.
This is a good point as well, though I kind of see both sides of this issue. I don't like it when people wail on newbies for just asking a question, but it is kind of annoying when fully half of the threads on this board are "What's the bext X under Y dollars?"

The bottom line, for me, is that posters that ask these questions should politely be directed to the search function on this board.

It also doesn't help when there are posters around here who can't find anything good to say about budget mics, mics that, for the vast majority of people around here, are the only ones they can afford.

VIVA Studio Projects!
VIVA MXL!
VIVA SM57 and 58!
VIVA Rode!
VIVA FMR!

Home recordists who don't make six-digit salaries have never had more options than they do right now. It's a great time to be doing this stuff.
 
Hey, I've probably recorded over 20 songs, and I'm excited by the fact that my brother is getting a B1 :D My equipment is dire, but I have fun and still aspire to improve. Don't know why I'm saying that but this seems like its turning into a "Hey lets all post positive stuff" thread. Just don't mention the "Mr. Micro*****"

:D Enjoy
 
This is almost off-topic, but I just think that it's amazing that, as the gap between the haves and have-not is increasing by leaps and bounds in this country, the gap in sound quality between recordists that have high end gear and those that don't has never been smaller.:)
 
mrface2112 said:
i hear ya

i think part of the problem here is that some people are thinskinned or express themselves poorly in writing. or maybe they've got a really low budget and don't want to hear what some folks have to say about the various pieces in their signal chain (and maybe they're thinskinned too). no one running all beheringer gear wants to hear "all behringer gear is crap", regardless or whether or not it is.

Are people who work with real recording equipment supposed to listen to someone bitch about how they can't get a CD quality mix out of their all-behringer studio?

You can't expect someone who has access to an expensive mic closet to accurately guage the "goodness" of cheaper mics that they've probably never used. Even if some of them have, they have a benchmark to base their judgements on that sets the bar far too high for cheaper mics to compete. That is why asking AEs who work in commercial studio environments if $250 mic a is better than $250 mic b results in frustration and dismisal.

Is a $250 mic bad because a bunch of professional engineers say it is? No. It just means that they work at a level where they don't have to accept limitations, unlike home and project studio owners who are on a tighter budget. I'm not going to say don't listen to what anyone says on these boards, rather think about what you are going to ask before you ask it.

Every mic I own is considered cheap or shitty by some AE, but I don't care. They work for what I use them for and for now, I'm happy settling with them. I fully intend to buy more expensive mics in the future because I think they will sound head over heels better than the mics I have now, but I accept that what I have is all I can have at this moment and I make the best with it. That's just me though.
 
I agree with all the points on here so far and I'm glad people don't think I was having a rant. It's rants that I want to get away from, unless we haven't already heard them a dozen times!

I have an AKG C1000. Oops, I am told. What a waste of money. Well, it's not the best value, I know that now, but it got me started and hell it sells in huge volumes to knowledgable folk, so it can't be the dreadful piece of junk I get the impression from here it might be.

I also have a Behri UB1204. It's great. I compared the pres on full gain with an expensive Soundcraft and found it to be much less noisy. It does loads for a tiny mixer and it's a great utility mixer when I'm out doing different things on the road. I plug it into an Audiophile USB and a friend's laptop and we're ready to record high-end demo material. We even use stuff from that technique to mix into 'proper' material.

You're right, and I have been guilty of it, that newbies should search old threads. But when you come across a quality site like this for the first time, you want all your questions answered just for the excitement of joining in this vibrant online community.

It's testing, but hey, you could set up 'prorecording.com' if you just wanna talk response curves and capsule diameters all day long. This place has a decent mix methinks.
 
I've got 2 C1000s' and I've never used them. Had them for a year and never used them. I don't know, every time I pull them out to use them I just look at them and put them right back. I don't know why I just don't sell them.


Oh yeah, some of the people who post here also post at the rec pit at prosoundweb.com

You think this place is harsh. .....
 
yeah but as I say my point is that this is homerecording.com and so whilst the experience and knowledge of 'pros' (whatever that means, i get paid for my recording!) is great to a point, they should encourage rather than discourage those setting out into this hobby!
 
As a newbie here, this post is great timing. I am a musician who doesn't know a whole heck of a lot about recording. I'm just looking for some insight, not to be looked down upon. Great post!!
 
noisedude said:
yeah but as I say my point is that this is homerecording.com and so whilst the experience and knowledge of 'pros' (whatever that means, i get paid for my recording!) is great to a point, they should encourage rather than discourage those setting out into this hobby!

I'd have to disagree there. The AEs who have been around the block don't really owe anyone anything. They've paid their dues and learned the ropes their own way. I'm sure they've had to deal with much worse that just a few snide remarks in their days. If anything newbies should be respecting their knowledge and absorb as much of it as they can without interrupting.

Now with that said, those same AEs do have a tendency to be stubborn asses and most of the time just want to prey on the newbies ignorance - almost like an internet hazing of sorts. That sort of thing I really don't see the point of, but that doesn't stop them. I guess you could call it being powermad, but anyone with any degree of control over another exudes the same attitude.

Telling AEs that they need to behave in order to not hurt someones feelings will really do nothing but drive away good people with wellsprings of knowledge and advice. If they are foolish enough to intentionally hurt somene's feelings, then if anything they should be ignored themselves. There's a large difference between a little horseplay and being a complete asshole.
 
Yeah that's probably fair but when I say encourage:

"everything you want to buy is clearly shit you dumb fuck"

and

"you shouldn't buy that stuff it honestly sucks, save up and get X product instead"

are very different. yeah it helps to be thickskinned and take it but if you haven't asked a dumb question, just an ignorant one, why should you get insulted for it?

i'm a classically trained musician and something of a virtuoso on four or five different instruments. there are others on here who can dazzle anyone with their double stroke side rolls or double-tapping that most of these AEs can't. but i don't hear them dissing kids on other sites who think they want a squier strat and don't know about yamah pacificas.
 
noisedude said:
Yeah that's probably fair but when I say encourage:

"everything you want to buy is clearly shit you dumb fuck"

and

"you shouldn't buy that stuff it honestly sucks, save up and get X product instead"

are very different. yeah it helps to be thickskinned and take it but if you haven't asked a dumb question, just an ignorant one, why should you get insulted for it?

i'm a classically trained musician and something of a virtuoso on four or five different instruments. there are others on here who can dazzle anyone with their double stroke side rolls or double-tapping that most of these AEs can't. but i don't hear them dissing kids on other sites who think they want a squier strat and don't know about yamah pacificas.


Like I said, there is a difference between being harsh and being an asshole. The mantra "there are no dumb questions" doesn't always hold true to an AE, and when you've been asked one too many times a question that anyone can get the answer to if they just did some research, you will get a little snippy. Calling someone names and basically berating them is more of what I would call being an asshole.

EXAMPLE:

Q: My band is recording a demo and we want it to sound CD quality. We only have a 4-track and a radio shack mic. We are going to buy some more stuff, but we only have a budget of $100 dollars. What can we do to make our demo sound better?

* Razzing response *
A: Try Yoga.

*Asshole response *
A: Nothing! You're stupid if you think you can and you're even more stupid if you are asking others how. Why not do us a huge favor and just quit now.

Same effect, but different delivery. Granted the response is going to very based on the sensibility of the person answering, but the point is the same. You have to accept that sometimes if you are going to ask before you check to see if the questions been asked before.

My eyes are burning.
 
"i'm a classically trained musician and something of a virtuoso on four or five different instruments"

Go on, make us feel bad ;) I'm only Grade 5 :(

What do you play?
 
yeah that's fine. music's great and i love it. it's my favourite pastime apart from sleeping but it sure as hell isn't my 'life' and so i don't have anal attachment to everything i've done and how far i've come. experts got help and advice on the way and it's great that they come here to share. but i go to the pub if i want loonies to yell at me.
 
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