Mastering your project: DIY or Go to a Pro?

[BRIEFCASEMANX]

If you or the band has no money, DIY

If you suck complete ass at tracking/mixing, DIY(keep pissing into the wind and someday in the distant future you MAY eventually run out of piss)

If you are okay at tracking/mixing, and want some expert advice: ME(and ask beforehand that he give notes/advice to you on the songs. Say you are doing it as a learning experience, he may appreciate your enthusiasm.)

If you are great, the mixes sound great, and you want to step it up to that next level*: ME



*in this case, I would also advise to get involved with a dangerous hobby such as drag car racing or king crab fishing, so that you stop making me look like the clueless asshole that I am.

 

[Massive Master]

"VDO whine"

What is that?
Eck

Video - 15.875kHz (depending on the refresh rates, etc.).

It still surprises me (I'd say "shocks" me, but that seems a little strong - although, it actually shocks me) how many seriously big-budget recordings make it out without anyone hearing it... Not the tracking guy, not the mixing guy, not the mastering guy, etc.

But I'd say I'm filtering it out on at least several mixes weekly. I'd make a preset if it wasn't so ridiculously simple to fix. But I shouldn't be the one fixing it... It never should've made it this far. That's the "shock" part.

 

[BRIEFCASEMANX]

Video - 15.875kHz (depending on the refresh rates, etc.).

It still surprises me (I'd say "shocks" me, but that seems a little strong - although, it actually shocks me) how many seriously big-budget recordings make it out without anyone hearing it... Not the tracking guy, not the mixing guy, not the mastering guy, etc.

But I'd say I'm filtering it out on at least several mixes weekly. I'd make a preset if it wasn't so ridiculously simple to fix. But I shouldn't be the one fixing it... It never should've made it this far. That's the "shock" part.

how do you get rid of this plague? and what are the symptoms?

 

[Jack Russell]

Just to continue babbling about my own current recordings for my band (as an example--for this thread topic) in case anyone is iterested:

We used a Rode NTK mic for all vocals, in a mostly isolated vocal room. On the drum kit we used mostly SM57s, with 2 overhead Avelex condensor mics. Guitars were recorded in an isolation booth with a well-placed SM57, using a Marshall 4x12 cab, at various settings for each tune (sometimes quite loud). Bass: direct, or for a few cases miced off the cab with the Rode NTK, at a low volume (this happens to be my own personal taste for a warmer, more live sound in some cases, and might be against the "book" ).

Uh... we recorded these all into an ADAT, using compression on guitars and bass and vox. I have another ADAT for extra tracks also.

For FX at mixdown I have at my disposal 2 Midiverb IIs and 1 Midiverb III, and several compressors (Alesis Nanocompressors). There is an Rev7 unit we can also get our hands on. We are mixing into 2 Lansing monitors, which seem to be adequate and have a good full range. The board is an Alesis M-16 track thing. We mix to a DAT recorder.

So: This example, as I understand it, is not really a pro setup. Am I right? All the gear is "consumer level" and not pro level. Probably the only link in this chain that is really a professional appliance is the Rode NTK. But some would argure that the SM57s DO pass muster in the pro sense; some would not. Alesis gear abounds, but that isn't "pro" is it?

Still, this setup isn't that bad either. I'm thinking a polished recording can be made from this gear, and that, if performed well, recorded well, and mixed well, it could end up as good as anything else in the world. If the mastering is done well.

Am I delusional?

 

[ecktronic]

Video - 15.875kHz (depending on the refresh rates, etc.).

It still surprises me (I'd say "shocks" me, but that seems a little strong - although, it actually shocks me) how many seriously big-budget recordings make it out without anyone hearing it... Not the tracking guy, not the mixing guy, not the mastering guy, etc.

But I'd say I'm filtering it out on at least several mixes weekly. I'd make a preset if it wasn't so ridiculously simple to fix. But I shouldn't be the one fixing it... It never should've made it this far. That's the "shock" part.

Can you please send me a sample of something with VDO whine in it?

Eck

 

[bblackwood]

I'm a pro and I think it's great for people to try DIY mastering. They generally walk away with a healthier appreciation for what we do and often learn a lot as well.

That being said, like most anything else you DIY, it's likely to be compromised a bit - but that doesn't always matter...

 

[BRIEFCASEMANX]

Video - 15.875kHz (depending on the refresh rates, etc.).

It still surprises me (I'd say "shocks" me, but that seems a little strong - although, it actually shocks me) how many seriously big-budget recordings make it out without anyone hearing it... Not the tracking guy, not the mixing guy, not the mastering guy, etc.

But I'd say I'm filtering it out on at least several mixes weekly. I'd make a preset if it wasn't so ridiculously simple to fix. But I shouldn't be the one fixing it... It never should've made it this far. That's the "shock" part.

oh, are you talking about that high pitched sound that normal tv's make? I have an LCD with my comp and I can't hear anything from it.

 

[mshilarious]

Video - 15.875kHz (depending on the refresh rates, etc.).

Massive, do an experiment on your friends sometime, many adults over 30 cannot hear that frequency *at all*. I mean like at 85dBSPL. It's a good thing for your line of work that you can.



I can hear it in one ear

 

[chessrock]

Depends on the seriousness of the project.

If you have to ask the question, then it's not necessary for the project. You'll know when it's necessary (or even highly advisable). Seriously, you'll know.
.

 

[cusebassman]

Just crank the compressor up to 12:1, with a threshold of -90dB, and crank the output gain to get it back to 0dB flat.

Apply the upside-down bell curve over a graphic equalizer, pass your mix through that, aaaand yer all set.

 

[FALKEN]

If its going to be replicated on CD I would recommend at the very least making sure that the master disc is burned with the proper burner with the proper error rates and the proper formatting. DIY mastering can work, but it will take practice (don't expect to get it on the first shot). My advice for starting out is get the settings that you like, and then back off of them about 1/2 way. also, cheap hardware may likely sound better than plugins. try anything you can get your hands on.

 

[Massive Master]

Can you please send me a sample of something with VDO whine in it?

So, I'm doing some editing today for a dance company - The source material is a very high-dollar project - Bad whine on most of it.

Here's a *LOOK* at the culprit: http://www.massivemastering.com/special/VDOWhine.JPG

As much as the material changes, that spike stays pretty steady. Although in this particular clip, it actually goes in and out (making it even more irritating).

And here's a *LISTEN* to the culprit:

WARNING: And I'm not kidding - READ THIS BEFORE LOADING THE FILE

There is one section (around 30 seconds) repeated three times in this file. The first is the original source material, untouched. The second one has the whine amplified to make it a little more apparent.

I'm not joking here - Turn it down before it starts. Listening to the untouched file is like a drill going through my brain. If you're nearly as sensitive to these high end frequencies, listening to the amplified version at a high level isn't going to be pretty.

Anyway - The last section has the offending frequency cut with an incredibly tight FFT filter. Problem solved in 3 seconds.

 

[mshilarious]

I'm not joking here - Turn it down before it starts. Listening to the untouched file is like a drill going through my brain. Listening to the amplified version at a high level isnt' going to be pretty.

Yep, I will repeat what I said earlier: many, if not most, adults will not be able to hear 16khz at -70dBFS (assuming a system calibrated to a 0dBFS peak sine wave = 94dBSPL, or so), especially over program material. Due to tinnitus, I doubt I could hear it over program material, although I can on headphones as a pure sine wave--only in my left ear It's very rare for anyone over 40 to hear 16kHz at 20dBSPL, especially with any other sound to mask it.

Just listened to the file, I cannot honestly detect it. I think I hear it, but when I press stop, it's just my tinnitus. Heck, I can't hear the version you boosted 30dB!

So again, be thankful for your good hearing! Or rather, your clients should be!

Finally, listening to an amplified version of the track isn't pleasant for other more pressing reasons, mostly the self-noise of the gear in question. Not that I would know anything about that

And for once, FFT proves to be a good thing

 

[punkin]

Do both...get a pro to do it and while the project is out try your own hand at it. When the pro-job shows up, see how you did. It would be a great reference point to see what you can and can't do.

 

[punkin]

So, I'm doing some editing today for a dance company - The source material is a very high-dollar project - Bad whine on most of it.

Here's a *LOOK* at the culprit: http://www.massivemastering.com/special/VDOWhine.JPG

As much as the material changes, that spike stays pretty steady. Although in this particular clip, it actually goes in and out (making it even more irritating).

And here's a *LISTEN* to the culprit:

WARNING: And I'm not kidding - READ THIS BEFORE LOADING THE FILE

There is one section (around 30 seconds) repeated three times in this file. The first is the original source material, untouched. The second one has the whine amplified to make it a little more apparent.

I'm not joking here - Turn it down before it starts. Listening to the untouched file is like a drill going through my brain. If you're nearly as sensitive to these high end frequencies, listening to the amplified version at a high level isn't going to be pretty.

Anyway - The last section has the offending frequency cut with an incredibly tight FFT filter. Problem solved in 3 seconds.

AAARRRGGGHHH, that was nasty. What caused it? Sounded like someone rubbing the rim of a crystal goblet. Was that a harmonic or what?

 

[cusebassman]

If you can't find a mix engineer or somebody locally even with next to no budget, try your hand at it, test the mix on as many different sound systems as possible, and then start handing it out to friends. Tell them to critique not the song itself (since they will perhaps lie to you if they aren't d-bags), but ask them to critique the quality.

I tell em to be brutally honest, and usually they will come back with "Yeah - on my stereo it sounded too bassy", or "such-and-such instrument wasn't very loud", "The vocals were muffled", etc.

If a few people come back with similar complaints, you got somethin to go back and fix! And believe me, if the problem is really there, and is fairly noticeable, more than one person will mention it... I've found problems are usually either minute or glaring, and not much in between. The inbetween problems are found by the person who professionally masters the material later on, if it gets done

I've also taken to doing it myself because I guess I figure with enough sample-spaces to test in, and various systems to test on, I should be able to get it fairly close to decent by going back and fixing individual instruments in the mix. Between the monitors in the studio, the car system, the computer speakers, a couple different types of headphones, a boombox, and whatever others think of the quality, I have a good set of test subjects.

But, if I ever get anything actually finished I'll probably still send it out to get professionally finished, and see which I like better... might be thrilled or dismayed by the end result (hopefully I'll get back one a them new, fancy square-wave songs like they play on da radio )

 

[ecktronic]

Booft.
Not nice.
Sounds like interference from a video screen or something.
There is alot of noise in all the clips. Not as high a frequency as 15k.
Are you going to take that noise out?

Eck

So, I'm doing some editing today for a dance company - The source material is a very high-dollar project - Bad whine on most of it.

Here's a *LOOK* at the culprit: http://www.massivemastering.com/special/VDOWhine.JPG

As much as the material changes, that spike stays pretty steady. Although in this particular clip, it actually goes in and out (making it even more irritating).

And here's a *LISTEN* to the culprit:

WARNING: And I'm not kidding - READ THIS BEFORE LOADING THE FILE

There is one section (around 30 seconds) repeated three times in this file. The first is the original source material, untouched. The second one has the whine amplified to make it a little more apparent.

I'm not joking here - Turn it down before it starts. Listening to the untouched file is like a drill going through my brain. If you're nearly as sensitive to these high end frequencies, listening to the amplified version at a high level isn't going to be pretty.

Anyway - The last section has the offending frequency cut with an incredibly tight FFT filter. Problem solved in 3 seconds.

 

[Massive Master]

I try to tame the noise, but they're all partially orchestral recordings - I'm assuming some of that noise is a mask (noise added to the parts that *don't* have it in order to keep the parts that have it inherently from sticking out too much). And the tracks are very broad spectrally - You almost have to approach it from a classical standpoint. Take out the noise, and something is going to complain about it.

 

[ecktronic]

Sounds like a tricky one man.
I had to add in noise when mixing a song once.
I was automating the vocal track as it had some extreme pops. And since the recording was pretty noisy to start with I had to sample some noise from the vocal track where there were no vocals and add it in.

Good luck with the project.
Eck

 

[ecktronic]

I had a quick shot at mastering the 1st sample of the clip you put up MM.
Just for a laugh really. The noise was unbearable. I tried to get rid of it as much as I could but some is still there. The high end is a bit lost but I would prefer to have less high end than more noise.

http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=7480
Hope you didnt mind me messing on this.

Eck