mastering in SF

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well shit.....it's too bad none of my music could cut the mustard for these evaluations....but thanks chess for the kind words on "Spanish Nights." I was hoping that the variety of acoustic stuff (Spanish nights)...or the other ambient stuff on that MP3.com page...or "Lost Pilot" being a hard rock tune...or the stuff on the Upper Room page at MP3.com (adult contemporary...albeit Christian rock.....in a good way!!), was giving/allowing enough of a variety. The mastered/not mastered stuff is a good alternative, and I could supply some of that stuff too...but it would be from the 80's and early 90's....a bit too "dinasourish", I suppose...and rehashing *old tunes* is kinda boring anyway...ehh??

I must say...I am kinda leaning towards Chess's viewpoints in this discussion....but, I think one ommision is the *level* of quality being acceptable. ....like are we talking "Steely Dan professionalism"...or some B level national group....like an Alanis Morrisette "jagged little pill" quality?? The musicianship makes mastering a hell of a lot easier (and of course the tracking/mix engineers too...) Give credit to pros who know how to sound good in a studio too.
 
Bah... Planned for a long time to keep my nose out of this. But I gotta say I'm with brokenwindow.

You record your shit. It's called recording even if it's in a toilet with a RS-mic to a philips cassette-recorder.

You mix your tracks. It's called mixing even you let your mom do it.

The natural step would be..

You MASTER your tracks. The outcome may not be of highest quality. But why does Mastering require 100.000$ rooms 1.000.000$ gear, and priceless ears to earn the name Mastering?

You Master good, or you Master bad, or somewhere in between... but... I'll go on calling my post-mixdown-stereo-editing, mastering. or maybe "mastered".. but then I can say that I "recorded" it, and "mixed" it too..

well well... I'd sure like to hear when you master and when you don't.. AND where that brickwall is between..
 
"You mix your tracks. It's called mixing even you let your mom do it.

The natural step would be..

You MASTER your tracks. The outcome may not be of highest quality. But why does Mastering require 100.000$ rooms 1.000.000$ gear, and priceless ears to earn the name Mastering?"

Okay, what exactly do you do in this step after mixing that's any different from mixing. Is it something different from mixing?

Do you use different gear (hardware or software) in this final stage?

Do you use a different room?

Do you get someone else to listen to it and make suggestions and/or adjustments?

Or is it a fine-tuning of what you've been doing in the mixing phase using the same ears, the same room, the same gear?
 
Hullo dobro.

Okay, what exactly do you do in this step after mixing that's any different from mixing. Is it something different from mixing?
Click to expand...

Yes! Mixing (the word) must come from the process of mixing tracks together to one (stereo) signal. This would also be the appropriate time to add individual fx for each track. But the main thing is to mix the individual tracks to ONE signal.

i.e. I post-edit the mixdown. I cannot mix it 'cause there's nothing to mix it with. This is what I call, and really thought/think is, the meaning of the word Mastering.

Do you use different gear (hardware or software) in this final stage?
Click to expand...

Yes.. to some degree. I seldom use reverb/echos. I toy around with multiband paragraphic EQs and Multiband compressors, regular compressors and limiters.

Do you use a different room?
Click to expand...

Yup. I record it to my MiniDisc and listen to it in the livingroom through my Harman/Kardon 680 / Dynaudio Audience 70's. These speakers play loooow bass (in a good way) and are totally unforgiving. I also have a second stereo which I sometimes listen to it through..

Do you get someone else to listen to it and make suggestions and/or adjustments?
Click to expand...

I really don't see why this should be required. But well.. I send my "mastered" thing around, people make suggestions, and I listen to them.

Or is it a fine-tuning of what you've been doing in the mixing phase using the same ears, the same room, the same gear?
Click to expand...

Well.. isn't that what mastering is all about? (the finetuning-part)

All your points made above don't change my point. What you mentioned is elements that give the right person the ability to master GOOD, to make a living of it, to earn a reputation.

The question remains. Where is the brickwall between what you call mastering, and what's not mastering? Why is it that it can't be called good mastering and not-so-good mastrering?

Anyway. Peace and respect dobro. :)
- Mesh
 
Mixing involves taking tracks from a recording session, playing them back together, and adjusting the voulme, panning, and effects so they sound good.

Mastering is a process whereby a number of songs, after being mixed down, are EQ'd, compressed as necessary, and balanced in volume with each other, so that they will sound good when placed together on a CD.

Do you need different rooms, systems, people to DO both?

NO!

Do you need different rooms, systems, people to do it the best it can be done?

More than likely..

Mastering has nothing to do with a guy they call Master. Or a studio where the Master lives. Or the Masters gear.


Enough for me......this is getting old

No offense to anyone intended...
 
Chris (mixmkr),
Don't count yourself out yet... I have yet to see a CD, and haven't heard from hearclear2 on the status of things.....

Queue
 
well...let's just take this in a slightly different direction...

Are you recording when you are just using a *semipro* Mackie 8 buss mixer and using <$1000 Lexicon reverbs, and not the Lexicon big guns (that's what's on ALL the records anyway...right??..the 480 or at least the pcm80) ? Shouldn't you be using a Trident, Harrison, SSL, Neve or at the very least, an old MCI? NOT some "semi-modular" board. Are you prof. recording when you use Rode NT1, AT4033, or any of these new breed of condensor mics?....You should be using a C12, U87, U47.....cause that's what all the REAL pros use anyway...right??? RIGHT????? Hell...throw the DATs away too...'cause MOST REAL pros are still going to a Studer to mix on...RIGHT???

oh...don't use any software plugins from Waves, Sonic Foundry, Antares, etc....that wouldn't be recording .......[or MASTERING either].

And...you can't be recording if you're doing it in the same building you sleep in most nights too....ya gotta go to a place that has hardwood floors, funny shaped ceilings, and speakers flush mounted in the walls.....or it just aint recording....

This board shouldn't be called "home recording" either....more like "home tinkering".....yeah..you might charge some people to tinker with their tunes..make people feel *cool* because they are singing into a mic with a groovy shockmount....make a couple bucks here and there...but YOUR NOT RECORDING>>>just tinkering....

It just gripes me when people spend less than the cost of a new Lexus or Jaquar car on equipment, and think they are recording....Anyone with a job can go buy a new car...but you need more to be able to buy REAL recording equipment....ALOT MORE!!

oh shoot...don't use casettes either...that'll be the death of the record industry too (once said a loooong time ago...)

tink, tink tink...pitter patter...POD< POD...tink tink....
 
Messhugah, Brokenwindow: okay, I'm convinced. Brokenwindow, I think you summed it up with this:

"Mastering is a process whereby a number of songs, after being mixed down, are EQ'd, compressed as necessary, and balanced in volume with each other, so that they will sound good when placed together on a CD.

Do you need different rooms, systems, people to DO both?

NO!

Do you need different rooms, systems, people to do it the best it can be done?

More than likely.."

Which means that it's qualitatively no different from any other aspect of homerecording, it's just a different stage. The experience of the engineer is no more necessary during mastering than it is during writing, performing, recording or mixing. But the experience of the engineer who knows what he/she's doing WILL get you better results every time. Except the songwriting. :D And maybe the performing. :D :D
 
Still no CD from "rewake"...

Shall we move on with one of mixmkr's songs?

Queue
 
AS I said... it doesn't really matter to me....... pick something and let me at it. If it's not much sooner rather than later, it's going to be MUCH later!

Let's get on with it.......

Queue - you decide and it and give it to both Chess and I...... (or let us download it...)

The point here is who can do more with their gear than the other, so it really doesn't matter what the song is or whether we even like it... the idea is to make it sound the best you can with what you got....

Bruce
 
Some good comments.

I've been looking to make a career change. I am basically a career sales person . . . advertising sales. My goal is to find some way of applying my current knowlege and skills to something . . . ANYTHING that might somehow apply to the recording or sound production industry.

I started earlier this week making phone calls to every studio I could find in my area (Chicago). Shops that work with the advertising industry (producing commercial audio, jingles, voice over, etc.). To my surprize, only a small handful actually employ a sales team. A few have marketing directors, but most rely strictly on repeat business and word-of-mouth.

Anyway, I do have a point to make with this. During some of my telephone discussions, a few of the owners/engineers I spoke with did voice some concerns about the state of the recording industry. A cash-strapped and business-starved ad industry is increasingly gravitating towards less expensive alternatives. Quality is often viewed as an acceptable sacrifice in their quest to cut costs.

Meanwhile, you have idiots like me :) professing that they can produce an acceptable level of quality from their basements. It seems the industry is in a state of flux. Entry costs are not as high, and smaller shops are popping up in large numbers. And, unfortunately, advertisers might not perceive the difference in quality. It might be time for some of the established pros to put on their marketing hats in order to keep up with the increasing competition from the "smaller guys."

Just thought I'd ramble a little more. Any word yet on the material? I'm getting anxious.

God bless the victims and their families.

Chess
 
5 pages of this crap. When the hell is the contest going to start????? :rolleyes:

barefoot
 
My bad :(

I was waiting to get a CD from the guy who had a song that was mastered so we'd have a 'pro master' to compare with.

(Chris) Mixmkr,
I believe you're up! I think Bruce named a few of those songs on your page. But he said it didn't really matter, chess hasn't specified a song, so I think it can be your choice.

Do you have high speed access? I can set up an FTP space for you if you do. If not, let me know and I'll email you my snail mail addy to send a cd.

I'm guessing what we want here is a 16 bit stereo .wav file without any mastering. <-correct me if I'm wrong here guys, esp on the bit depth.

Queue
 
Can i get in on this contest? could be fun..

Or is this just between Chess and BB?
 
bw,
There's some rules buried in this thread somewhere, but essentially, yes you can get in on the 'action'.

Queue
 
Cool..

Just lemme know when and where to DL it...

It'll be more of a learning experience than anything.

Just see how far i can go up against some real equip..heh
 
Blue Balls Bruce - a little Bear - Let people try to master at home - it's OK.

After checking out this forum for the first time I was disappointed to see that someone who should be considered a professional would be so darn rude - regardless if he's giving constructive criticism to someone. Don't we all go to these things to learn and help out.

Bruce, you sure seem like you have a lot to learn in the way of expressing your point - it's too bad your studio is not near mine, because I sure would enjoy having all of the customers you must piss off.

I think once you get off your high horse, actually invest in some real studio gear (photo comes accross as a home studio), learn that publishing rates are not where customers and business grows, find a canyon that is big enough to fit your ego, and figure out some other way to bug people in this world.

As for the mastering at home, more power to those that want to grow and experience on their own - eventually, that makes for a more informed player, customer, and patient recording artist. And maybe, just maybe, one day, that home mastering person will investigate other methods to master at a mastering studio... and hopefully one where the engineer and owners appreciate home grown efforts... I don't think we all were born with silver spoons or all the right combination of gear.

So, for those of you willing to take on the challenge of mastering my best advice is to give your ears a rest after recording before you attempt to master. Give the mix a couple days to settle in - play the mix on a few systems, including your car and cheap boom box... then think about what you are trying to accomplish in the mastering process... and go conquer.

Good luck to all (except Blue Balls Bruce Bear... he seems to have all his stuff so well together that he doesn't need our support).

Jeff Smith, Chicago, IL.
 
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