Marshall or Nady?

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c7sus said:
Maybe that comment was too flippant. In re-reading the original question ....."A decent condenser mic for as cheap a price as possible that'll record BOTH decent vocals and guitar."

"Decent" is certainly a matter of opinion. As far as cheap, I guess the mics mentioned are cheap money-wise.

Possibly a better response would be to define "decent".

I do agree with the above post that anything run through the SB isn't gonna reach it's full potential.

Anyway, back to the mic thing.... I guess I'm burned out on reading questions about the best blah blah blah for 200 bucks. Best accurate? Best "sounding"? Best quality? Best value? Best what?

The post awhile back about the A/B of a SM58 to a 4033 was eye-opening to me, and I think to alot of folks. Clearly most felt the 58 sounded "better" than the AT. Why? Freq response/eq curve of the mic was the answer given....Both mics are widely used and made by manufacturers with good reputations. What's my point? Goes back to defining decent and personal taste. Buy whatever you want and can afford. I'll defer to the experience of HG. Like I said, it's just my 2 cents.
LOL. Welcome to my world, C7sus!! I've had that same question thrown at me for the last five or so years on the rec.audio.pro newsgroup. That's why I started listening to some of these low-end condensor microphones to see if there was a "best" or at least a "decent" mic, but, like you, I had to first figure out what the hell "best" and "decent" meant. That was the hard part.

I finally figured out that for me, "decent" meant it was reasonably quiet, no disturbing peaks or upper-end shrillness, consistent from unit to unit, and capable of recording not only voice, but various instruments. That last requirement created some problems. Ususally small condensor mics will record acoustic guitar better than large condensor mics. The reason why is too lengthy to go into here, but I will, if anybody's really interested.

So now, I'm looking for two "best" cheap mics - one for vocals, and one for instruments. A small condensor mic, and a large diaphragm condensor mic.

The other problem is the nature of the human voice, and the nature of acoustic instruments. They vary widely, and even the most expensive mic in the world may turn out to be terrible for one person's voice. Same with acoustic guitars - a Martin is not a Gibson is not a Taylor is not an Ovation.

So instead of trying to find what's best or decent for under $200, it actually turns out to be easier to find what "doesn't suck for under $200".

Getting rid of all mics with harsh top ends was pretty easy, which took out the NT1, the C1000 and C3000, the Oktava 219, and several of the low end Audio Technicas.

Getting rid of all mics with inconsistencies from unit to unit was also pretty easy, which took out the NT1, the Oktavas, and the Nadys. If the mic I happen to get is vastly different from the same unit you bought, my recomendation wouldn't mean very much.

So what we're left with is a few Marshalls that worked pretty well on a lot of voices, along with a couple of small mics that worked well with a lot of different instruments. These shouldn't suck for most applications.

But let me go back to the AKG C3000 as an example. In the 3 years I owned one, I only found one person and one guitar where the AKG C3000 was better than any other mic I owned - and it was spectacular on that one person. Every other person and instrument I tried it on, it sucked - big time.

Should you avoid the AKG C3000? If you own a shaved top 1956 Martin D-18 AND you have a low, slightly gravelly voice, by all means try the C3000. For the rest of you, avoid it like the plague. What's the bottom line?

There is no single "best mic under $200 for vocals and guitar" - there ARE a few that are pretty decent and if you buy one, it'll sound a lot like mine, which is what I'm basing my opinions on.

IF the question is "what's the best mic under $200 for my voice and my guitar", the only answer is "go listen and try a few", but make sure you know what to listen for. If you can't hear the differences between some of these mics, you're not ready to buy one yet.

I've had people tell me I was full of shit about the AKG C3000 - that is was absolutely killer on their voice and guitar, only to talk to them a year later and have them say, "I can't believe I didn't hear all that harshness in the C3000's top end, till I tried XXX".

There are no easy answers.
 
MASTON said:
Harvey Gerst. Thanks for that.
What's Cardioid mode, Omni, and Figure 8 mode, though.

Maston
Sorry, I missed your question till just now. They are some of the ways a mic "hears" the sound in the room.

Cardioid mode is basically heart-shaped - it picks up very well from directly in front and gets softer in volume as you turn the mic around. It's the most common pattern made (it's also called "uni-directional" - i.e., "from one direction"). It's one of the "pressure gradient" patterns, since it mixes part of the sound from the side and back to create the cardioid pattern.

Omni (or "omnidirectional) is a simple circular pattern that hears sound coming from all directions. Most omnis have a slight high-end rise directly on-axis (i.e., straight into the mic). If the mic is flat on-axis, it will have a falling high frequency response off-axis. If the mic is flat off-axis (in what's called the "diffused field" type of omni design), it will have a rising high frequency response on-axis. An true omni is a "pure pressure" mic. Only the front of the diaphagm responds to sound.

Figure 8 (or bi-directional) uses a single diaphragm that is open to sound at both the front and the back of the mic. Many dual diaphragm condensor mics can mimic the omni and Figure 8 pattern by internally rewiring the back diaphragm. These will not give a true "omni" or "figure 8" pattern, but they can come close with some limitations (e.g., "omni" mode will still have some proximity effect, and "figure 8" mode will not be 100%identical from the front to the back). A true bi-directional mic is a "pure pressure gradient" mic.

Hope this helps, and that I didn't get too techy on ya. I can make it simpler if ya want.
 
C7, take some of your Buddhist compassion into heart when someone asks for a microphone suggestion....


"This question is like "Do I want the shit on a stick or the shit on a plate."

Shit is still shit!

Just my .02"

This is compassion....?
 
Yes, you voiced your opinion c7sus, but you did it in the least helpful, most rude way. Instead of calling stuff shit maybe you shoudl say "I gotta say, neither or those mikes are worth the money for me, I find that all of them sound like crap because blah blah blah." and there's no need to bring religion into this.
 
Any further cocksucking should be done in the Cave...I believe I was next C7......

But back to microphones, C7...tellme exactly where you tried out those Marshall mics out, the v67 and the mxl603 to be specific...Id like to know what about them you thought was "shit"....
 
OK, let's change tack here for a bit.
Anyone know anything about the RME DIGI96 soundcard. I've got an option on one. Would it work for me considering my equipment. (I've got a jetway 530BF motherboard by the way)
 
Maston

I wouldn't worry too much about the SB Live. Just make sure you upgrade to the ASIO driver for it. You won't even keep your tracks in sync without it. The SB will also force you to record at 48 instead of 44.1. Cakewalk will do a conversion on the fly and you'll never notice it with the ASIO driver. Really, I can't stress it enough; if you're gonna use SB Live you need to upgrade the driver. It's a free upgrade so it's silly not too.

The Marshal will sound fine on acoustic guitar but will cause a lot of high-end presence on voice. That's great for a guy like me who has a lot of lower mid-range (picture Ray Romano trying to sing) but you'll probably do better with just a plain dynamic like a SM57 for that. And you can get one for a hundred bucks. Really…for demo work it's more than fine. Depends on your voice though. I have to have a condenser or at least an electric condenser or all my words turn to mush. That's just me though.
 
Im still waiting for an answer from the cock sucking whore...
 
OKAY, thanks to everybody. I now know loads about mics, though I still wouldn't know a good 'un from a crap 'un by listening, I reckon. Anyway, after all that somebody offered me an AKG C-1000 pretty cheap (they're dead cheap & popular in England as a beginners mike, and Marshalls and Nadys are really expensive and hard to get hold of) the other day so I bought it. I know it's not all that good, but I figure with my Soundblaster it's not worth splashing out on a better mic. I'll upgrade both when I know what I'm doing, though I've got problems already (see another post)
cheers
Maston
 
Hey Windowman, you there. I'm gonna install those EMU drivers. Just got one question. Can I still use both line outs on the soundblaster i.e one for monitors and one for headphones
 
I'd just like to say, and please don't start another argument on Octava's, that I have yet to see someone have a firsthand bad experience with the quality control. They claim that the mics have bad QC, but they don't say "I had one and it broke in 5 minutes" I have 4 MK319's. They all sound identical, and all work GREAT. First try, out of the box. Didn't have to return one, haven't had to do anything to one. They are just nice sounding mics. Especially for $150 a piece.

Jake
 
Maston,

Nope, at least not to the best of my knowledge. Only one will work after the new driver install. It's really not a problem unless you're a big gamer and like to use the subwoofers for that. Maybe you have other reasons. Actually, you can use both drivers and switch back and forth between them. It's a bit of a hassel though and means restarting your computer every time you make the switch. Sorry I haven't had time to do anything with the mic yet. Hopefully tomorrow!

jrlemonz,

Cool pic!
 
Hey Matson!

The wait for good quality condensers at low prices is over as far as I'm concerned. I just can't believe it. Really, this thing is amazing for the price. It wasn't quite as good on acoustic guitar as I had hoped but the real surprise was on the vocals. My voice has never, and I mean never sounded this clear and rich. I have only two small concerns. I thought it had an awful lot of bass end. I had to role it way back on the board. But after I did it sounded great. And it was maybe just a tad bit on the noisy side but nothing serious at all and certainly nothing a noise reducer in a wave editor program like Cool Edit couldn't take care of. Really, it wasn't enough to even worry about. Heck, I probably had more noise coming from my preamp.

I found a review of a Marshall MXL2001 today and they said it had an internal bass-cut switch. I didn't read anything in the literature that came with my V57 about a bass-cut switch anywhere but when I get home from work tonight (at lunch right now) I'll open it up and look for one just in case it has one too. That would be really nice if it did. I'll try to make a quick recording this evening of guitar and voice, and post an MP3 of it for you. I'm caught up with work now so it shouldn't be a problem.

Oh, and it was far from terrible on guitar. You have to work with it a bit though. I generally like guitars miked behind the sound hole/bridge area but with this one I thought it sounded a little better where the neck met the body. Makes for more finger/string noise that way though. A pair of these mics might be ideal with one in each spot and it's certainly affordable.

http://www.proaudioreview.com/par/january00/Marshal-web.shtml
 
Hey Harvey,
Do you feel like maybe vacationing in northern Minnesota? Helping me record my CD. The fishing is really good. Lots of Walleyes. mmmmmm!
Bald eagles, lots of woods. Peacful and quiet.

J
 
No no no. Come to Florida, and bring some mics ;) the beaches are awesome this time of year........
 
Nonono... the weather is beautiful up here in Washington State. All kinds of beautiful scenery, mountains, trees, lakes, no traffic jams, low crime... I think Harvey owes me a visit. :-D

Isaiah
 
Prism said:
Nonono... the weather is beautiful up here in Washington State. All kinds of beautiful scenery, mountains, trees, lakes, no traffic jams, low crime... I think Harvey owes me a visit. :-D
Isaiah,
You don't need me, when you have Rick Ruskin living up there in Seattle. Great engineer, and one of the all-time greatest acoustic fingerpicking guitar players to ever walk the planet.
 
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