Making Money

[mndog75]

I know music is not all about the money, but I would somehow like to sell a tune or two, maybe just the lyrics. I checked out the taxi site(awesome) but you have to wait until there looking for your music.I can't describe my music let alone put it in one of there categories.Is there somewhere I can send a demo for a possible sale or even a signing??I pretty much do everything on my demos so theres no band yet.I guess eventually when my music gets heard and the possibility of gigging with original material is accepted I will do it( I guess the nearest venue for that around me is philly or Baltimore,but again have trouble finding places that would bring in the crowd i'm looking for)anyway just figured I would ask, maybe somebody could give me a ray of hope.

 

[earthboundrec]

Is there somewhere I can send a demo for a possible sale or even a signing??

nope.

Seems to me you're looking for an easy way to making money in the music business. Nothing wrong for wanting it, but it isn't going to happen. You do recordings by yourself now huh? Post them up in the MP3Clinic here, let people tear apart your skills, and then remix it 'til it's good. Start posting it on the internet at nowhereradio.com or other sites that do that kind of service. Try to get people to listen to your tunes by having links to your tunes or website at other websites. It's a slow process being the one man indie project so don't expect any real feedback from this sort of self marketing. I'm getting maybe 50 to 100 downloads / month on my one man indie project, but that's all right because I got the giggin' band going too.

Giggin is the only way to get real exposure. Giggin' and doing it a lot! Doing shows is the only way to really make money as an indie act also. It gives you a chance to hopefully make enough money from the venue or the hat being passed to get on to the next town, and if you got someone who can sell good have them handle any merchandise that adds a little extra to your cash flow. Pay $1500 to professionally record and manufacture a bunch of cds and hopefully by the end of the tour you'll have sold enough to break even on the cost of production.

What would break this cycle of not much money? Getting good exposure from a descent label maybe (don't think you still won't be paying out though!), maybe if people really like the shows you get a word of mouth following... you don't have to stay in a state of playing small shows and making no money, its just a hard point to pass for many indie musicians

 

[ChristopherM]

OH GOD! Here we go again!!!

mndog75,

You're going to get a barrage of replies to this post, don't let them discourage you.

The hard truth? You're going to have to be your own "ray of hope." If this were easy, we'd all be rich. Do a lot of research, brush up on your salesmanship and networking skills, and keep plugging away. It's not a "Pop Idol / American Idol" world in real life. You need to work your ass off. Got VH1? Watch some of those "Driven" stories and see how some of the big names suffered before getting famous. Kid Rock, 50 Cent, Tim McGraw, Nirvana, No Doubt...they all went through a lot of crap and sacrificed everything to get where they are. Really. Want an even MORE sobering reality? Do some research and check the stories of acts like Warren Zevon, Jill Sobule, Eels, Sugarcult, Ben Folds Five, and the Flaming Lips, etc... All very good acts making critically-acclaimed music and BARELY EEKING OUT A LIVING!

As far as "bringing in a crowd," most venues expect YOU to provide the crowd. You don't get exposure by just showing up and playing, you have to let everyone you can possibly tell know you're playing. Bribe them to show up if you have to. Clubs/bars/pubs/coffeehouses don't give two shits about your music, they're only concerned with selling drinks and making money. You provide the audience, they'll provide the venue. Otherwise, don't expect a callback from them.

 

[mndog75]

I guess what I meant to say is, you cant just send a demo to a big label you need a middle man,and I realize that gigging is a big part of finding that interest. I guess I was looking for someone to here my demos like taxi,or some other route, any ideas???

 

[ChristopherM]

I guess what I meant to say is, you cant just send a demo to a big label you need a middle man,and I realize that gigging is a big part of finding that interest. I guess I was looking for someone to here my demos like taxi,or some other route, any ideas???

1. Research. I think you'll find there is no pre-determined "route."

2. It IS NOT EASY to sell your music. Can't say that enough.

3. Make yourself interesting and people will be interested.

How many people do you supposed "send a demo to a label" or a "middle man?" How many do you think actually get LISTENED TO? Sheesh! If something sounds too good to be true, it almost surely IS. IT TAKES WORK.

Or, sure, you can sit at home at your computer and give TAXI your credit card number, send CDs in shotgun fashion to all the labels and producers out there, and hope for the best. Less competition for me if you do.

 

[Another PK]

Make sure that you pay VERY close attention to earthboundrec (whom the VMG crowd refers to as PsychicPsychopathicVerbalVomiter)

You ought to invite CyanJaguar (whom the VMG crowd refers to as BlueJackass) to do the research. Pay close attention to whatever he comes up with even though he couldn't find sample contracts.

You also need to pay close attention to the Contaminated and Polluted Flo Dolo (whom the VMG crowd refers to as Flo'Dildo). Maybe his brand of crude, rude, obscene, degenerate, and filthy language will do the job.

Then pay attention to pashop. He has 27 years of experience in this industry. He ought to have an idea or two to share some very specific ideas.

ragebro is a DAMNED LIAR!

And BEFORE you spend any money, learn where to spend it wisely. After you're done paying close attention to the Idiot Element, (this might be what ChristopherM was referring to as the barrage) read the information at http://www.vmgworldwide.com/fullsite.htm and take your BEST shot with any company you choose.

Best wishes to you and your music endeavors.

 

[ChristopherM]

Another PK:
We already have a thread for that fued. Let's give it a rest, OK? It's getting really, really assinine and immature.

mndog75:
Sure, read the VMG site. Don't JUST read that. Read EVERYTHING YOU CAN GET YOUR HANDS ON.

 

[leavings]

I agree with Chris and earthbound, seems like you're looking for a way in where there is none. Similar to venues expecting you to provide the crowd, studios and labels aren't going to give you a contract because you're talented or because they like you. They want a product that is already established and proven in a viable market. They want music that they know will sell.

There's always opportunity out there, but you have to get out there and work for it. Its a long, arduous process that you have to be prepared for and dedicated to. I don't mean to discourage, just to be realistic.

Peter

 

[coma king]

selling your music

As of jan. 1,2004 there is a new site run in the U,K, by a guy named Andy Wilson, a real class guy, I think it's 20 lbs.(european money)and that gives you 5 uploads in mp3 format,
after that you can purchase credits 6 at a time for 50 pence a piece, then uploads are 2 credits each no limit to the amount of songs you put on the site. The site just started so there is not that much traffic yet but Andy tells me that after he gets a base of 300 song writers he has a commercial radio station lined up in the U.K. that will only play the sites songs. I have had songs on the site for about 2 weeks and have sold 1 download, allthough this doesn't sound like much at this time there is minimal traffic so there is potential. The name of the site is "songscibbler.com"

 

[glynb]

Re: selling your music

Andy tells me that after he gets a base of 300 song writers he has a commercial radio station lined up in the U.K. that will only play the sites songs.

I'd be very suspicious.
A COMMERCIAL radio station in the UK that has agreed ONLY to play songs by totally unknown artists? Really does this sound feasible? Commercial radio in the UK (not publicly funded like the BBC) makes money by selling advertising space, to sell that space they need to show a potential advertiser that they either have a mass audience or a particular niche market (like most of their listeners are known to be stockbrokers, or students, or young women, or ethnic minorities, or 20 somethings, etc).
Maybe the station in question plans to feature the artists for maybe one show (at 2am on Thursdays), but i cant see them giving up all their air time to unknowns - a very risky strategy. Maybe folk like us (home recordists)would listen to complete unknows all the time, but most pople out there want to hear the top 40 (sadly).

I'll check out the site myself (I'm a UK resident) but from what I've observed it's more difficult to get played as an indie in the UK with few opportunites, than it is in the States with all their extra stations (especaily college radio).

Hope i'm wrong about this and you're not being ripped off.

 

[coma king]

You know thats why I quit participating in STUPID FORUMS FOR STUPID PEOPLE!!! I am not getting ripped off because I haven't given him any money, he gave me a free membership to help get it off the ground. I have had multiple e=mails and he's even called me, tha'ts when he told me about the radio station that he is going to BUY!! so he can play any F----n thing he wants,not everybody is a brokedick. now there's the info you can either check it out with a positive attitude or post another arrogant negative remark that I know you will now good=bye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[earthboundrec]

I think glynd was simply inquiring about it not knowing that you were actually a spammer for the company. You're giving the company a real bad image to start with by spamming and then being a jerk off.

 

[pashop]

Make sure that you pay VERY close attention to earthboundrec (whom the VMG crowd refers to as PsychicPsychopathicVerbalVomiter)

You ought to invite CyanJaguar (whom the VMG crowd refers to as BlueJackass) to do the research. Pay close attention to whatever he comes up with even though he couldn't find sample contracts.

You also need to pay close attention to the Contaminated and Polluted Flo Dolo (whom the VMG crowd refers to as Flo'Dildo). Maybe his brand of crude, rude, obscene, degenerate, and filthy language will do the job.

Then pay attention to pashop. He has 27 years of experience in this industry. He ought to have an idea or two to share some very specific ideas.

ragebro is a DAMNED LIAR!

And BEFORE you spend any money, learn where to spend it wisely. After you're done paying close attention to the Idiot Element, (this might be what ChristopherM was referring to as the barrage) read the information at http://www.vmgworldwide.com/fullsite.htm and take your BEST shot with any company you choose.

Best wishes to you and your music endeavors.

You don't need to be at this long to smell a scam folks. Go to the website listen to the music they are selling ........if you can't get a deal with VMG then just give up.

 

[Garry Sharp]

glynb - there's a UK internet radio site that plays only unsigned bands. That might be what he meant. I can't remember its name but last week's Sunday Times had an article about it - you might find it on their website. (In fact the Sunday Times has put together its own internet radio station, Doors FM, and our band is on their playlist)

And now I've re read coma king's post I've realised I'm off the mark but thought this might interest you anyway.

 

[pashop]

I know music is not all about the money, but I would somehow like to sell a tune or two, maybe just the lyrics. I checked out the taxi site(awesome) but you have to wait until there looking for your music.I can't describe my music let alone put it in one of there categories.Is there somewhere I can send a demo for a possible sale or even a signing??I pretty much do everything on my demos so theres no band yet.I guess eventually when my music gets heard and the possibility of gigging with original material is accepted I will do it( I guess the nearest venue for that around me is philly or Baltimore,but again have trouble finding places that would bring in the crowd i'm looking for)anyway just figured I would ask, maybe somebody could give me a ray of hope.

What you need to do is work at your craft. Is sounds like your just getting going. Its like the guy who takes guitar lessons for six months then quits because he thinks he should be Eddie Van Halen. Song writing takes years , practice and dedication. If you have the ability then put a band together and start playing. You need to throw it against the wall to see if it sticks. Playing in front of a crowd will give you the results you need fast. If you write on acoustic take a week head to Nashville and play at some of the songwriters sessions. Hall of Fame has one on Monday nights as well as the Bluebird and many others. You can then network with other songwriters who can point you in good direction.
The key to this industry is creating a buzz...once you have succeeded in doing that they will come looking for you. Its not easy and takes a lot of dedication . You might get kicked in the groin a few times but keep at it.
Many of the folks on here VMG, Indiebiz, Taxi are all about selling you the pipe dream. Some have better character than others but the results are the same. Most of the information they have you can find online for free if you are willing to work at it.
Here is a headstart:

http://www2.allaccess.com/index.html
http://cdbaby.com/
http://www.musicrow.com/musicrow2/f...&-lay=data&-Error=error.html&HomePage=1&-find
http://www.musicdish.com/mag/?id=3833
http://www.rronline.com/Charts/cou_Home.htm
http://www.outersound.com/osu/distribution/index.html
http://backstage.vitaminic.com/
http://www.abcpictures.com/
http://www.americanamediapro.com/
http://ubl.artistdirect.com/music/ubl/labels/0,,,00.html
http://www.cleverjoe.com/canada.html
http://www.cdstreet.com/
http://www.musicbizacademy.com/directory/talentagencies.htm
http://www.4frontmusic.com/
http://www.indiepool.com/
http://www.letstalkmusic.com/
http://www.mi2n.com/press.php3?press_nb=29641
http://www.mosesavalon.com/index2.htm
http://musicbootcamp.com/
http://musicians.about.com/?once=true&
http://www.songlink.com/
http://www.starpolish.com/advice/
http://www.101distribution.com/home/index.htm
http://www.getsigned.com/
http://www.worldmusiccharts.com/cgi-bin/top/topget.pl?group=17
http://musicians.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.indiecentre.com


Cheers

 

[glynb]

Gary and pashop, thanks for your positive comments and advice re links and The Sunday Times site.

I'll leave others to draw their own conclusions regarding the coma kings post.

 

[coma king]

Look I'm not spamming anything I found it on e bay I 've been writing and recording for 25 years and I'm just like you guys it just seems like everytime you try to help someone all they do is look at the negatives there are also positives and it's run buy a guy just like us he even has his own material on the site. he is providing songwriters a forum,(it's there it's on line), I'm just so high on the guy because he took the time to call me because I was having a problem with the uploads, not many people will put that much effort in it. It will be up to songwriters to make it work not only by joining but by providing QUALITY MATERIAL you know not everybody will sell, there are indies out there every bit as good or better than anyone on the radio, then again there are those who just think they are Jimmy Page. So there is a place to sell your songs if they are good enough. you know this internet music thing has just really gotten off the ground it WILL only get better.The situation as it stands is only tempory CHECK IT OUT FOR YOURSELF.

 

[pashop]

Look I'm not spamming anything I found it on e bay I 've been writing and recording for 25 years and I'm just like you guys it just seems like everytime you try to help someone all they do is look at the negatives there are also positives and it's run buy a guy just like us he even has his own material on the site. he is providing songwriters a forum,(it's there it's on line), I'm just so high on the guy because he took the time to call me because I was having a problem with the uploads, not many people will put that much effort in it. It will be up to songwriters to make it work not only by joining but by providing QUALITY MATERIAL you know not everybody will sell, there are indies out there every bit as good or better than anyone on the radio, then again there are those who just think they are Jimmy Page. So there is a place to sell your songs if they are good enough. you know this internet music thing has just really gotten off the ground it WILL only get better.The situation as it stands is only tempory CHECK IT OUT FOR YOURSELF.

I can't seem to open that site you mentioned and when I did a search on songscibbler.com it came up with nothing.
PS Never liked Jimmy Page always thought he was a sloppy player who just happened to be at the right place at the right time. I was a big zep fan until I saw " The song remains the same " movie.

 

[glynb]

I was a big zep fan until I saw " The song remains the same " movie.

Hey, I'm with you on that. My god that movie is boring and self indulgent. I turned it off half way through one of Page's interninable solos...yawn. Still, some folks love it, each to their own, eh.

I did check out scribbler.com and could access it (I think there's a space or something in the URL that coma king provided). My original words of caution were meant in a friendly way, as there are a lot of scammers out there and some naive people can get taken in. As coma king says, there's not much there at the moment, but any genuine attempt to assist indies is of course very welcome. I was surprised by the agressive response, but maybe I am too cynical for my own good?

 

[coma king]

Seems you guys missed it Jimmy wasn't a great guitar player He was a great songwriter, How old are you guys?