Madonna the guitarist?

[Krystof01]

I can see this one going on for a while, can't you?

I was thinking more along the lines of "is a drummer a musician?".....

Go and post that in the drums and percussion forum, they'd love that one Gidge.

 

[Emeric]

Rock on Charger! Many sides to the whatever this is about.

Since I've edited this enough times.

I don't agree with any of your points DavidK, as per definition per say.

A musician is someone who writes music. End of story, in my context of ending at least.





Last edited by Emeric on 09-01-2001 at 18:50


Last edited by Emeric on 09-01-2001 at 18:50

Last edited by Emeric on 09-01-2001 at 18:50

 

[DavidK]

Emeric,

musician writes music, end of story? Egads, how amazingly and utterly shallow, sorry but true. When people ask me what I do, I say, I am a professional musician. Is that wrong?

You dont agree with any of my points.

How about " the ability to play or sing in tune?" Dont you think that may be a wee bit important?

The ability to appreciate all genres, btw, doesnt mean one has to like all genres. Hendrix was influenced by Wagner, MacCartney by Bach, etc. They kept an open mind, and look what happened.

Before this turns into a "music school sucks, self-training rules" thing, let me humbly re-word my post as this:

"Of all the wonderful and diverse players I have been fortunate enough to record and play with, the ones who got my respect and admiration, the ones I deemed great musicians, had almost all of the qualities that I mentioned. Perhaps they didnt have pencils (a pro session player/orchestral player like me wont be caught dead without one), but they all had very similiar qualities, no matter what genre of music they played" There, you cant argue with that.

Emeric et al, what are YOUR definitions of good musicians?

DavidK, former Musician until Emeric declared him " Not a Musician". Hold me.

 

[Emeric]

heheh... let's not carry this too far....

I just don't like your 10 commandments.

I never said you weren't a 'musician'.

Did I?

Everyone has their own idea of what a 'musician' is.

I prefer my definition. If you (as in 'one') can't write a song - GOOD or BAD. You ain't a musician.

Call me narrow-minded.

 

[DavidK]

Dont worry, Emeric, I wont let it go too far (DavidK hugs Emeric, turns red, looks at playboy to re-affirm manliness.)

Those aren't commandments (except for #10), they are my personal guidelines for the musicians I prefer to work with. You dont have to agree with them, but I am sure you can at least appreciate the basic principles behind them.

As you know, I am a classical player, but as you also know, I love all types of music, and I make my living playing with rock bands, jazz, broadway, basically anyone who pays me. I also write some music too. I am not good at it, but I do it for a hobby.

My only problem with your theory is that I know a lot of Mutha-fucking killer musicians who dont write at all, and some of them probably cant. That doesnt mean they arent good musicians, it means that they are not songwiters or composers.

Emeric (and others too), I have been reading your posts for almost a year, you are a smart fellow. I would be very curious to hear your opinions on what makes a good musician. I am not a snob, I would like to see you and others explain your opinions of what a good musician is. Perhaps you can start a thread in the cave, it is a very cool subject, certainly will provoke more thought than some stupid thread like "CATS, the non-musical". What dickhead started that anyhow?
DavidK, the" I might be a musician after all" violin guy

 

[Emeric]

I'll go out on a limb here.

And say the musicians who can play but not write- are damn good performers. Agree?

Wish I could think of something smarter to say but I cant. I come across people all the time who 'appreciate' music. They spend their whole life ripping apart musicians, yet they can't play a single note.

It is an interesting topic. Drag it to the Cave Dave.

 

[DavidK]

Emeric, my last comment, then I will drag this to the cave, I like the way this is going: maybe I dont agree, but you bring up valid points.

Certainly the players I know in the classical world who dont write are great performers, no doubt. They are also very skilled musicians. I know lots of session players who play with everybody, but they werent trained to be composers, and have no desire to compose. It doesnt mean they aren't great musicians, It just means they dont write.

There are scores of great violinists in the world who have mastered the fiddle. There are also scores who dont know anything except technical skills. Good musicians are diverse in many ways, but the key to being a good musician, IMHO, is the ability to communicate with your fellow players.

See you in the Cave, Dave

 

[charger]

Well that's a musician *in your opinion*. In my opinion, it's something else entirely. I don't think 100 people could get together in a room and agree on what a musician is. personally, I think of music as art, and thus I abhor the idea implied by "professional musician" as if it were "professional artist." It makes me think of Thomas Kinkade, the painter who has a shop in every mall and has factories churning out his paintings.

As far as "appreciating music" goes... most musicians hate punk rock, not today's simple pop stuff, but the real stuff, the revolutionary stuff, when the sex pistols, the new york dolls, and the ramones were just starting out. yet this is one of the most vital artistic leaps in american popular music after rock.... and the punk rock ethos, as it was then, was really about subversion of the whole idea you are espousing. it was "our music has been coopted by a bunch of trained monkeys and record labels, to the point where it's not fun or interesting anymore... so let's take it back." and the idea was, you don't need to be a good musician, or trained, or a good guy with a heart of gold and an appreciation for Botswanan rain chants. All you need is the desire to move yourself with music. This does not fit your definition at all, yet I will never give up the belief that this is art... and .... music. I don't think such a diverse and vital art form, that is so ingrained in humanity, can be described as simply a set of rules or a business. for one thing, no one gets royalties when a mother sings to her child. for another, johnny rotten could not sing in tune at all, yet he created explosive, culture-changing "music".

 

[Gidge]

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33091
DavidK was gracious enough to start a thread in the Cave continuing this conversation.....