m/s mastering refresher

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giraffe

giraffe

i love negative rep
mmmmmmmmmmm.......


i forgot.

how is it again that you seperate the mid and side signals? :o

thanks troop.
 
L = M + S
R = M - S
(assuming "S" is oriented with its front side toward the left)

So, take a direct out from the channel with "S", and plug it into another channel; press the polarity button on the other channel. Now you have "-S". Pan M center, S left, and -S right.

S and -S should be kept at the same level. Varying the relative gain of M and S/-S allows you to control the width of the apparent stereo field.

Don
 
what i'm asking is how do you take L/R and end up with mid/side

i guess id be de-codeing it not encodeing it.
 
I've never tried that, but I suppose it would be

M = L + R
S = L - R

i.e., sum left and right to get M, and sum left and inverted right to get S.

Is that what you want?

Don
 
it's silly just how much sence that makes, but i couldn't remember for the life of me. :o :rolleyes:
 
giraffe said:
it's silly just how much sence that makes, but i couldn't remember for the life of me. :o :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Well, it makes more sense once you have it figured out, I wouldn't say that it's intuitive. Judging from the number of times this questions gets asked (here and on other forums) I think the concept takes a bit of thought initially.
 
Oh, it makes sense to me...I just can't get it to sound decent. At least there's one more mystery in life left for me...otherwise, I'd have it all figured out. :p
 
punkin said:
Oh, it makes sense to me...I just can't get it to sound decent. At least there's one more mystery in life left for me...otherwise, I'd have it all figured out. :p
Click to expand...
Be sure to verify that all of the tracks have the same amount of latency, otherwise the audio will be out of phase. Other than that, without any modifications the M/S pattern from the link I gave should sound identical to the input. I've run null tests on Pro Tools and they zero out last I checked.
 
COuld someone put this into simpler terms?
I dont know what yous are talking about but it sounds interesting.

Cheers,
Eck
 
ecktronic said:
COuld someone put this into simpler terms?
I dont know what yous are talking about but it sounds interesting.

Cheers,
Eck
Click to expand...


What you're doing is taking the elements which make the track sound "stereo" (ie the difference between L and R, the elements which aren't in common) and seperating them from what is common between the tracks (ie mono, the sum of the two).


So: Left (minus) Right = Difference (ie, side)
Left + Right = Sum (ie, mid)
 
MessianicDreams said:
What you're doing is taking the elements which make the track sound "stereo" (ie the difference between L and R, the elements which aren't in common) and seperating them from what is common between the tracks (ie mono, the sum of the two).


So: Left (minus) Right = Difference (ie, side)
Left + Right = Sum (ie, mid)
Click to expand...
Which (for extra credit bouns points) is how most basic vocal removers for karaoke work. They assume that the vocal is going to be panned right down the center, so they sue the above described math matrix to seperate out and then mute the center.

Unfortunately it also takes anything else panned dead center along with it. But if one is singing karaoke, chances are the quality of the accompaniment won't make anything sound any worse anyway :D.

G.
 
MessianicDreams said:
What you're doing is taking the elements which make the track sound "stereo" (ie the difference between L and R, the elements which aren't in common) and seperating them from what is common between the tracks (ie mono, the sum of the two).


So: Left (minus) Right = Difference (ie, side)
Left + Right = Sum (ie, mid)
Click to expand...

I was a little :confused: too. That post helps clear things up a lot. :cool:
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Which (for extra credit bouns points) is how most basic vocal removers for karaoke work. They assume that the vocal is going to be panned right down the center, so they sue the above described math matrix to seperate out and then mute the center.

Unfortunately it also takes anything else panned dead center along with it. But if one is singing karaoke, chances are the quality of the accompaniment won't make anything sound any worse anyway :D.

G.
Click to expand...
Most of the karaoke out there is all midi now.... no vocal removing needed.
 
Rokket said:
Most of the karaoke out there is all midi now.... no vocal removing needed.
Click to expand...
True for canned music produced specifically for karaoke purposes. I was referring specifically to boxes (or software) designed to take commerical recordings and removing the vocals from them.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
True for canned music produced specifically for karaoke purposes. I was referring specifically to boxes (or software) designed to take commerical recordings and removing the vocals from them.

G.
Click to expand...


they remove the vocals alright...except for any panned vocals...they also remove the kick, the snare, the bass.........





luckily there's always some tone-deaf bastard singing over the top to distract us from the horrid backing track.

I have to admit, i dont get karaoke. whenever i walk into town (mostly early-mid afternoon) i have to walk past this bar. EVERY time, there's this same old geezer singing karaoke. and he's fucking AWEFUL - but the funny thing is he really gets in to it, as do the rest of the customers. weird shit !?


and what kinda word is Karaoke anyways?
 
MessianicDreams said:
I have to admit, i dont get karaoke. whenever i walk into town (mostly early-mid afternoon) i have to walk past this bar. EVERY time, there's this same old geezer singing karaoke. and he's fucking AWEFUL - but the funny thing is he really gets in to it, as do the rest of the customers. weird shit !?


and what kinda word is Karaoke anyways?
Click to expand...
Karaoke is Japanese for (roughly) "empty orchestra". It's for those for whom substance is irrelevant and style is everything (Japanese pop culture), or for those with more ego than talent (American pop culture).

I don't get it either. I say don't go on stage (or in front of a recording microphone) unless you are actually worth crossing the street to hear. If you want to get your ya yas off pretending to be a rock star, but have all the talent of a potted plant, have some pride and keep it in the privacy of your shower.

G.
 
Karaoke started where folks would sing Enka (Japanese style blues more or less). It was usually a boom box type unit and was mostly at small bars and enclosed parties. There are even Karaoke houses with just a small room for you to sing at your hearts will.
I think the whole thing got a boost in technology since the young folk didn't like the old songs. Then came out the whole big screeen on a stage deal full with verb to make a bad singer worse :eek:

Now its just overblown crap IMO.
 
Nice points n facts on Karaoke. :)

But can I do with this method of side and mid?
What can I apply it to to make use of it?

Cheers,
Eck
 
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