M-Audio vs. Echo Audio

  • Thread starter Thread starter mark4man
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mark4man

mark4man

MoonMix Studios
People,

Echo Audio's Layla 24 & M-Audio's Delta 1010 look to be about comparable in their specs (I think they may even utilize the same AKM Converters.)

Was wondering which one works better w/ SONAR 2.2, or if anyone had any thoughts in general, on either one of these Audio Interfaces; & how well they work w/ SONAR.

Thanks,

mark4man
 
I have Layla I'm gonna sell one of these days but it's a nice unit. Echo drivers seem pretty good. They have a PCMCIA solution. I needed more channels so I got a MOTU mk III.

Good luck, RD
 
rcktdg,

Thanks for the response. Thought of this afterward, but since my focus was on opperation [due to the fact that my current AI (LynxTWO) keeps crashing SONAR 2.2] . . . I guess I also should have asked: How do they sound?

On the MOTU stuff, I have heard (concerning Cakewalk products) there have been problems with "establishing the setup", which I guess means getting the drivers to install properly . . . but that once that issue is resolved, MOTU & SONAR work good together.

Thanks again,

mark4man
 
Well, with M-Audio, the intergration into Sonar is about as painless as it gets. The drivers have been constantly updated in the last three years since I've got my 1010. Latency can be as low as 1.2 ms for "monitor live input" mode in Sonar.
That's my experience, anyway. However, audio quality differs depending on the interface. A delta 1010 blows away the delta 66. I have both. The 1010 is pretty decent sounding, but the 66 is really noisy.... I wind up using it to feed headphone mixes and not much else.
Of course, for a REALLY killer combo, you can put a high end 2 channel converter like an Apogee in front of the 1010 for solo tracks & the like.
 
I haven't used maudio except the uno usb midi port. I used echo audio Gina 20 in the past and I'm still using indigo on my notebook. They have great drivers and sound very clear to me. I use MOTU 828 for recording with SONAR3. I haven't have a problem yet. I like MOTU because of direct hardware monitoring, and built in mic preamps and phantom power.
 
OzNimbus,

I am sure 1010 is better than the Delta 66 I have. But you present it like the 66 is just noisy trash.

The 1010 has a signal/noise ratio around 110 - 120 dB, and the 66 is around 100 dB. Still a good tube condenser has a signal/noise ration around 85 dB, and the same goes for most other equipment you can feed into the soundcard, not to mention rattling clothes. So what is the big problem?
 
mark4man:

either of these cards will be a significant step down from the lynxtwo Sonically...

have you updated the firmware of your lynxtwo?

i have had better results with it with sonar after i updated the firmware...also when running sonar close everything that is unnecessary...i've also found that running other apps like IE or something can enable sonar to crash more...

FYI its not a lynx problem its a sonar problem i use my lynx with samplitude and sonar and samplitude waaaayyyyyy more stable
 
Teacher,

You won't believe this . . .

I ran *chkdsk* on my machine . . . all was well. I uninstalled SONAR clean, per e-mail instructions from Cakewalk (whereby all Registry entries; & all .INI files are wiped.) I then defragmented my C Drive (where SONAR & my Project Files reside . . . I have a secondary drive for WavData.)

Then (& this is where I think I got into trouble before), the very last of the clean reinstall instructions from Cakewalk calls for the disabling of the Startup Group in *msconfig*, prior to reinstallation (Start > Run > msconfig > General Tab > Select "Selective Startup" > Uncheck "Load Startup Items" & reboot.)

I reinstalled after that . . . & then started SONAR & ran it with nothing running in the background (save for Services) . . . put it through a bunch of heavy wear & tear . . .

. . . & it's been running beautifully with the LynxTWO for two days ! ! !

I'm sincerely hoping that was the key . . . that I never got a clean install in the first place; & that I always seemed to forget to turn off the background junk. And I think having the Startup Group disabled gave me the clean install; & also provides a background junk free working environment for SONAR (as you alluded to.)

It seems to me now, that I should be able to perform the same "run ready" sequence whenever I record digital audio (or work in SONAR . . . & even WaveLab, in general.) So, over the next few days, I'm going to kill the Startup Group & reboot prior to opening the app . . . work like crazy . . . & then re-enable (the Startup Group) & reboot after I exit, to see how it goes.

So far, tho . . . no crashes, no glitches, no negative anything.

BTW - You know, I really *had* been hoping to stay with LynxTWO, even though I've been making noises like I was ready to cut & run.

I originally went with the Lynx because of the high quality converters & associated analog circuitry (-117 dB, a-wtd. DR & S/NR, etc.) And as you so aptly stated . . . I wouldn't get the same sonic quality otherwise.

Thanks for the response,

mark4man

BTW2 - Which components are firmware? I *have* upgraded the Mixer/Driver Version to 1.30 Build 053; & I believe that took the Firmware Revision from 21 to 22 . . . but which components are which?

Thanks.

Also: Thanks to OmNimbus, pronoise & tombuur.
 
tombuur said:
OzNimbus,

I am sure 1010 is better than the Delta 66 I have. But you present it like the 66 is just noisy trash.
Click to expand...

Well, if you got that from my last post, then obviously I got my message across :)

Really, the 66 is nothing to write home about. It IS noisy. Specs are one thing, but I hear hiss coming from it.


By way of comparison, I put my solo tracks and anything that has to be "mint" thru an Apogee Rosetta... I'm using it about 99% of the time. The Rosetta is my reference point.
So when I hear something thru the 66, it sounds really shitty. That's why it's been given headphone submix duty.
 
Hey Mark4Man...

You might want to check out this program.....
http://www.totalidea.de/frameset-tweakxp.htm

Tweak-Xp. It will help you get Windows running MUCH more efficiently.... As well as clean out a ton of the background programs & other bullshit you don't need running.

Belive me, this program is a godsend.

-0z-
 
OzNimbus said:
However, audio quality differs depending on the interface. A delta 1010 blows away the delta 66. I have both. The 1010 is pretty decent sounding, but the 66 is really noisy.... I wind up using it to feed headphone mixes and not much else.
Click to expand...

OzNimbus, what kind of noise do you get from the 66?

I've recently purchased a delta 44 and I'm having a hell of a job trying to get rid of a crackly distortion when recording. Even playing back mp3s in winamp will crackle until I shut winamp & restart it a couple of times
 
Sounds like you might have a clock problem. Go into your 44's control panel and make sure it's set to "internal" clock. You also might want to mess around with the "DMA buffer size" section. You could have your buffer set too small. Try increasing this to about 512 samples or higher and see if you have any luck.

My noise issues with the 66 are not "crackly distortion" but rather "hiss" from a sub-par analog section.
 
After your description of the Delta 66 being noisy I tried this: Unplugged everything and did a recording. I could hardly hear any hiss, and as a control I did a voice recording that at the same playback level blew my eardrums out.

Connecting a VoiceWorks through balanced in-outs and still with no mic, however, produced an audible hiss. Still it was at a very low level. For instance it would be hidden by the breathing of a singer.

Sure, there is not something else that is wrong in your setup?
 
tombuur said:


Sure, there is not something else that is wrong in your setup?
Click to expand...

My setup is fine. Inputs 3 & 4 are noticeably noisier than inputs 1&2.


Again, what i'm using it for is fine... feeding headphone mixes. But it sure as hell ain't an Apogee.
 
Thanks moskus for that link to RightMark. Interesting program. I guess you can use it to test all kinds of signal paths, even cables etc. and find out what your best options are.
 
tombuur said:
I guess you can use it to test all kinds of signal paths, even cables etc. and find out what your best options are.
Click to expand...
Well, yes. I guess so. But remember you're measuring the whole signal chain, but checking cables might be possible if you've already tested your system with RightMark. :)
 
That was my idea. Start out checking the basic system, then add units or cables to see how much dynamics, noise etc deteriorates.

My experience is mainly with guitar cables where long cables really can kill tone. So I guess you have similar problems with recording equipment. And a program like this will give you an objective assessment. You don't have to make a test, change setup and try to judge (if you still remember the sound) if it sounds any different the second time.
 
tombuur said:
My experience is mainly with guitar cables where long cables really can kill tone.
Click to expand...
Yes, what I do with long guitar-cables is that I run it into a DI-box and then go with XLR-cables from there, and voilà: Instant better SNR! :)
 
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