Low mic volume

[rfpd]

Hey, I'm using an akg p170 connected to Behringer PS400-UE connected to a guitar effect box, which has an audio processor that converts the analog to digital into the computer. I'm not using any pre-amp, I can amplify the audio to a point in which I can hear the recording well. The thing is, using a pre-amp before converting the analog to digital I would have a better sound quality because of the quantization levels. My question is, is it a significant difference? I have no way to test it.

I think the peak is at -30db.

 

[keith.rogers]

If the "guitar effect box" is only outputting 16-bit digital, any audio interface (AI) that is outputting 24-bit audio will have a better dynamic range. And, I can only guess that same box probably was not optimized for as wide of a range flat response as a microphone preamp would be, as well, but only because it sounds like its primary use is for guitar. So it may be that adding a preamp between the Behri and FX, it might help with s/n a bit, but still be at the mercy of whatever design effort went into that part of the box.

Record both ways in Audacity (e.g.) and normalize to the same levels, then listen. You could do a frequency analysis of a pink noise recording, too.

If you're using this setup live and it sounds Ok, well, that's probably all that matters. If you want to record high quality, there might be a better way to do it than this.

 

[mjbphotos]

"Guitar effect box" - probably doesn't have a mic-type preamp in it. Can you trade that Behr phantom power supply in for a real audio interface?

 

[rfpd]

If the "guitar effect box" is only outputting 16-bit digital, any audio interface (AI) that is outputting 24-bit audio will have a better dynamic range. And, I can only guess that same box probably was not optimized for as wide of a range flat response as a microphone preamp would be, as well, but only because it sounds like its primary use is for guitar. So it may be that adding a preamp between the Behri and FX, it might help with s/n a bit, but still be at the mercy of whatever design effort went into that part of the box.

Record both ways in Audacity (e.g.) and normalize to the same levels, then listen. You could do a frequency analysis of a pink noise recording, too.

If you're using this setup live and it sounds Ok, well, that's probably all that matters. If you want to record high quality, there might be a better way to do it than this.

I was using that work around because I got the wrong cable from the delivery, I ordered a 3.5mm jack, and they gave me a 6mm jack. I will be buying the 3.5mm soon and connecting it into my pc sound card. What kind of cheap preamp am I looking for? Something to put between the behri and the soundcard.

Thanks for the answer!

 

[rfpd]

"Guitar effect box" - probably doesn't have a mic-type preamp in it. Can you trade that Behr phantom power supply in for a real audio interface?

Just bought it . But like I said, I got the wrong cable. They only had a male xlr to 3.5mm, I ordered that, and they gave me a male xlr to 6mm, so I had to connect it to a female xlr adapter. That way I couldn't connect it to my pc soundcard, and had to connect it to my guitar effect box. Isn't there an analog xlr preamp I can buy, instead of spending hundrends of dollars in an audio interface? Thanks for the answer.

 

[ashcat_lt]

The ART Tube MP line are super cheap and really handy to have around as they can pretty comfortably handle conversions between 1/4 and XLR in either direction with both phantom power and gain available if needed.

Edit - though honestly there are a number of $100 interfaces that will serve you much better in the long run.

 

[rfpd]

The ART Tube MP line are super cheap and really handy to have around as they can pretty comfortably handle conversions between 1/4 and XLR in either direction with both phantom power and gain available if needed.

Edit - though honestly there are a number of $100 interfaces that will serve you much better in the long run.

Thanks for the help! I just realized, like someone said, that the guitar effect pedal expects a guitar input, which should have more voltage than a mic one. So, if I connect the mic to my pc soundboard (it says it's nvidia high definition video, 192 kHz/32-bit), perhaps it will have a proper pre amp for a mic. I mean, all mics have low voltage, and all need some pre amplifying, or is the amplifier after the DAC? That would result in some quality loss.

Also, I have an onboard VIA HD, I think the NVidia doesn't handle audio input, only output.

I'm not really here to take it serious, I just want to have fun and learn some stuff, in the meanwhile make some music, that's why I'm trying to avoid spending too much money.

EDIT: The VIA HD has 24-bit / 192 kHz, is it good?

 

[keith.rogers]

Maybe if you back up and tell us exactly what (everything!) you are trying to record, and the actual brand/make/model of the thing (video card? or is it two things?) in the computer you are trying to connect to, what the guitar FX is and how you've already(?) connected it to the computer?

I mean, I truly don't know what your end goal is, and if you've got any part of it working or not, so it's really hard to suggest anything. Just dump some actual data and we can stop pulling at threads. We'd like to help, but it's only going to make sense if it can be framed in a way that explains how you'd get from where you are now (point A) to where you want to go (point B).

 

[rfpd]

Maybe if you back up and tell us exactly what (everything!) you are trying to record, and the actual brand/make/model of the thing (video card? or is it two things?) in the computer you are trying to connect to, what the guitar FX is and how you've already(?) connected it to the computer?

I mean, I truly don't know what your end goal is, and if you've got any part of it working or not, so it's really hard to suggest anything. Just dump some actual data and we can stop pulling at threads. We'd like to help, but it's only going to make sense if it can be framed in a way that explains how you'd get from where you are now (point A) to where you want to go (point B).

I got it working by connecting an akg p170 to a behringer ps400-UE (phantom power only), after that I connected it to a zoom g2.1nu, and from there I can connect it via usb to the computer. I did this because they gave the wrong cable, I was expecting a 3.5mm and they gave me a 6mm jack (to xlr). The thing is, the audio is really low, -30db according to audacity.

The videocard, I tried googling it but I can't find anything relevant (only it's an VIA HD audio), it's an onboard soundcard. What I found is it can record at 24-bit / 192 kHz. Perhaps this would have a preamp, since I've used a microphone with an analog output and it worked. That's what I was wondering. Using the zoom (guitar effects pedal) there's not a preamp for a mic input, they do it for a guitar input which is higher.

I really just want to make some experiments, practice my singing, and make simples songs, only voice and accoustic guitar. I want something well recorded and 'hearable' but not very much 'hi-fi' as in too much producing and too much perfecteness and effects, I'm looking for something raw.

EDIT: According to what I said, my questions are, does an onboard sound card have mic preamplification, and is it good enough for what I want.

Thanks for the answer!

 

[Gary Harrison]

For what you want to do , imho you'd be better off just getting an audio interface with mic preamps. Something like the Behringer UMC202HD,or 204Hd, the Focusrite Scarlett 212, or something along those lines. The preamps are built for mic, They have phantom power built in, plus direct monitoring ability. and headphone, and speaker monitor selections.

 

[keith.rogers]

I got it working by connecting an akg p170 to a behringer ps400-UE (phantom power only), after that I connected it to a zoom g2.1nu, and from there I can connect it via usb to the computer. I did this because they gave the wrong cable, I was expecting a 3.5mm and they gave me a 6mm jack (to xlr). The thing is, the audio is really low, -30db according to audacity.

The videocard, I tried googling it but I can't find anything relevant (only it's an VIA HD audio), it's an onboard soundcard. What I found is it can record at 24-bit / 192 kHz. Perhaps this would have a preamp, since I've used a microphone with an analog output and it worked. That's what I was wondering. Using the zoom (guitar effects pedal) there's not a preamp for a mic input, they do it for a guitar input which is higher.

I really just want to make some experiments, practice my singing, and make simples songs, only voice and accoustic guitar. I want something well recorded and 'hearable' but not very much 'hi-fi' as in too much producing and too much perfecteness and effects, I'm looking for something raw.

EDIT: According to what I said, my questions are, does an onboard sound card have mic preamplification, and is it good enough for what I want.

Thanks for the answer!

Short answers is "It might," but that doesn't mean it will work.

Are the jacks on the computer labeled in any way or colored? Pink is the color of a microphone input jack. So, if you have one of those, you can just use a simple 1/4" to 1/8" (TS, or mono) adapter, assuming the ps400-UE is not bothered by low voltage in case that jack supplies plug-in power. No guarantees it will work or sound good, but it's that is my guess.

If you only have a multi-purpose 1/8" TRRS jack, i.e., one designed specifically for a headset or earbud/microphone combo, then that simple adapter will not work. There was another thread about that somewhere not too long ago on this forum.

If you use the built-in soundcard, you likely won't be able to record the electric guitar (via that Zoom) and voice through the soundcard at the same time. (Honestly don't know if aggregating audio devices is supported in Windows, but I suspect not.)

It will be simpler and easier to get an audio interface IMO, and plug the Zoom into that using a regular analog path, and the mic directly into an XLR jack that supplies phantom power. Maybe you can send all those other pieces back?

 

[rfpd]

Short answers is "It might," but that doesn't mean it will work.

Are the jacks on the computer labeled in any way or colored? Pink is the color of a microphone input jack. So, if you have one of those, you can just use a simple 1/4" to 1/8" (TS, or mono) adapter, assuming the ps400-UE is not bothered by low voltage in case that jack supplies plug-in power. No guarantees it will work or sound good, but it's that is my guess.

If you only have a multi-purpose 1/8" TRRS jack, i.e., one designed specifically for a headset or earbud/microphone combo, then that simple adapter will not work. There was another thread about that somewhere not too long ago on this forum.

If you use the built-in soundcard, you likely won't be able to record the electric guitar (via that Zoom) and voice through the soundcard at the same time. (Honestly don't know if aggregating audio devices is supported in Windows, but I suspect not.)

It will be simpler and easier to get an audio interface IMO, and plug the Zoom into that using a regular analog path, and the mic directly into an XLR jack that supplies phantom power. Maybe you can send all those other pieces back?

It has multiple inputs/outputs for mic, earbud, I already used a cheap mic using that jack input. That's what I was thinking using an adapter from 6mm to 3.5mm (or 1/4" to 1/8" ), like you said. I read somewhere online that every soundcard has pre amplification and if it works with cheap mics it should work with expensive ones, since cheap mics are also condenser type.

I only use zoom for my electric guitar, since my accoustic eletrical system is damaged, perhaps I'll try to fix it. So, I wasn't thinking on recording both at the same time, although it would be much better than recording vocals and then guitar.

Thanks for the help, I'll try this solution and I'll keep you posted if it works, perhaps it will be helpful to other newbs !

 

[ecc83]

Hi rfpd, as others have said, this faffing kludge COULD work but a $100 interface would give vastly better results and lower your BP!

However, I have two P150s, virtually the same as the later P170 and I have tested them against the very common, super cheap capacitor mic, the BM-800 and the 170 is about 6dB more sensitive IIRC*. That said, the BM straight into this HP i3 laptop give very good results i.e. into the 3.5mm jack where it is powered by the PC.

What you want to do is essentially electrically the same AFAICT. 48V to the 170 then the signal out to the internal soundcard on the laptop. This SHOULD work! Have you checked the Sounds &Devices menu in Windows to ensure that 1) you have the soundcard set as Default Recording Device? And 2) have you run thru the menu to set the level? N.B. You might need the level at max and possibly a boost and if you do that it might show the noise limitations of the soundcard. This HP is actually pretty good for both rec&play but not all lappy soundcards are equal!

*I have bought another BM-800, mainly to test the QC (they seem to be V bad) and this seems fine. Twice lucky! I shall set it up soon with a P170 as control and you MIGHT hear me on guitar! Don't worry though, I shall stick to 20 second clips.

If the Zoom works as a guitar interface, one of these..Microphone Impedance Matching Transformer with XLR to 6.35mm Mono Plug | maplin should get the mic working.

The transformer (widely available on Amazon) gives about a 20dB boost and assuming all else in the MIC-spook PSU-cables chain is ok, should give you a decent level. Note that even for 16bit operation you don't need the signal in the DAW hotter than about -10dBFS, maybe really loud peaks to -6.

Thing is you see, the output of the mic is balanced and still so out of the PSU XLR and whenever peeps mix balanced and unbalance kit, odd things can happen. The Mic-PSU-Traff-Zoom-USB-PC chain avoids such pitfalls.
Dave.