Looking to upgrade overhead cymbal mics, and large diaphragm dynamic?

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samth3mancgp

samth3mancgp

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Right now my choices for drum overhead recordings are 2 Rode NT-1a's, or 2 MXL 990s with the mesh cutting mod, and lastly a pair of shure PG-81s. I was looking to upgrade my overhead recording choices. The PG81s sound thin, the MXLs sound harsh, and the Rodes are pretty good sounding, but I would like to get something a little higher end. Probably a better set of SDCs since the Rode's do pretty good for LDC overheads in addition to either my U87 or C414 as a room mic.

I have found a good price on what look like an authentic pair of Oktava Mk-012s, but I have also heard good things about the AKG 451s, Neumann KM184s and KM84s, Rode NT5s, and some mics from Earthworks? I have moved away to college recently in a larger music epicenter and the craigslist around here is always chock full of big names like Neumann, AKG, etc unlike craigslist back home. I'm sure I could find a deal on any of those big names mentioned if I waited long enough but it seems like the Oktavas sound way out of their price range considering what I have read so far. Some choose them over KM184s.

Also, I was looking into a large diaphragm dynamic mic to use mostly for scream vocals. I get lots of metal core/screamo/hardcore bands back home and I think I could benefit from a large diaphragm condensor. I stumbled upon this thread https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=257996 that had some insightful info on a lot of my choices.

I had found a pair of EV RE-15s that I may be able to score at a good price, but I'm not familiar with them apart from what I read in that thread. I need something that will perform as well as say the Shure SM-7. Something that can take huge SPL and not distort at all, but have a better more "condenser-like" sound compared to say an SM58. Maybe I should just get the SM-7?

Thanks in advance for any help. :)
 
I love the Oktavas for overheads, personally, but I've heard generally good things about Earthworks, too.
 
Wow sounds like you want all of the microphones!
The 184s and Earthworks are great microphones and well worth the investment.
If you could find either on craigs list of ebay snag them if the price is right.

I live 5 minutes from Earthworks and I use to go in and acquire about B-stock and I was told they never sell b-stock for they don't ever want that kind of representation on the market. But will sell unclaimed repairs for less money than new price , but the employees get first dibs.

As for a vocal microphone I've had or still have a large selection and at the end of the day I'll still prefer and recommend the EV RE20.







:cool:
 
If the Oktavas I found are legitimate.. they will definitely be the best price of all of the other pairs of mics I could get since they are at $250! I don't think I would ever find a listing for Neumann KM-84s for $250. I need to find out if the mics were purchased or tested to be a matched pair though. How is the consistency between oktava capsules?

Also the oktavas will give me capsule switching options. If I were to buy matched Omni capsules (probably new) do you guys think that they would be the straight "pressure transducer" kind of capsule that has no acoustic chambers to shape polar patterns? I would like to give the oktava's with the omni capsules a try using the Jecklin Disc method for a concert band sometime.

And for now with the large diaphragm dynamic I think I may have a deal with a friend in a band back home where I can trade up an old mixer and some cheap dynamic stage mics for a Heil PR-40, which has some good reviews saying it stacks up against an RE-20 or SM-7 for kick drum and scream vocals. :) Nothin' like getting a a mic in the $300 range for free!
 
samth3mancgp said:
If the Oktavas I found are legitimate.. they will definitely be the best price of all of the other pairs of mics I could get since they are at $250! I don't think I would ever find a listing for Neumann KM-84s for $250. I need to find out if the mics were purchased or tested to be a matched pair though. How is the consistency between oktava capsules?

Also the oktavas will give me capsule switching options. If I were to buy matched Omni capsules (probably new) do you guys think that they would be the straight "pressure transducer" kind of capsule that has no acoustic chambers to shape polar patterns? I would like to give the oktava's with the omni capsules a try using the Jecklin Disc method for a concert band sometime.

And for now with the large diaphragm dynamic I think I may have a deal with a friend in a band back home where I can trade up an old mixer and some cheap dynamic stage mics for a Heil PR-40, which has some good reviews saying it stacks up against an RE-20 or SM-7 for kick drum and scream vocals. :) Nothin' like getting a a mic in the $300 range for free!
Click to expand...

Before going to far with other microphones for over heads take a look at the Naiant X-S you can't go wrong with these and at $80. for the pair it's a win- win.;)








:cool:
 
Those look pretty useful! really small jeez.. They are only omni though? I may look into those for another small diaphragm purchase because small diaphram condensers are the only thing my studio is still lacking in terms of better quality mics. Along with that large diaphragm dynamic.

I've exchanged e-mails with a recording arts professor at University Of Maryland Baltimore county and he says that the Oktavas are a favorite of his and that the omni capsules will work well for a jecklin disc recording though he prefers to use these nowadays haha. :cool:

I should be able to score a pair of MK-012s with -10db pad and cardioid capsules for $250, and I will purchase the omni capsules from the Sound Room new to ensure that they are matched well and sound good enough for something as specific as a jeckin recording. The overall cost for the pair with both cardioid and omni capsules will be less than a new pair with only the cardioids!
 
I've heard rave reviews on the Shure KSM-32's. I'm looking to save a few dollars to buy two of them for overheads. You can get them for about 500+ new. Earthworks from what I've seen are expensive and never tried them before.
 
moresound said:
Before going to far with other microphones for over heads take a look at the Naiant X-S you can't go wrong with these and at $80. for the pair it's a win- win.;)
Click to expand...

If you don't mind spaced pair overheads and/or you have a Jecklin disk. They're omnis, so they're kind of limiting as overhead mics, IMHO. Don't get me wrong, I love my Naiant mics, but stereo recording (e.g. overheads) is just about the last place I'd use them. (I don't have a Jecklin disc, and I've never liked the sound of spaced stereo.)

The Oktavas with the stock cardioid capsules give an amazing stereo spread in an X/Y config, IMHO.
 
OK ... I guess dgatwood. But would the size etc. of the room that one is to record drums in dictate if omni microphone would work well? That is if that is the sound that your going for.







:cool:
 
Well, I own the Oktavas and the KM184's. For drum overheads, the Oktavas are pretty good, but for general use- acoustic, strings, stereo remote pair, whatever, the Neumanns are in a whole different league. If you already have a C414, I'd consider buying another and calling it a day. They make stunning overheads, and a great stereo pair. If you just want a pair of overheads, by all means, buy the Oktavas.-Richie
 
I have the C414 XL-II and I really like it as a room mic, and for vocals. When I first got it I had the opportunity to get a pair in another eBay auction and the price ended up being just a littttle too steep for me. I've heard that the C414 is somewhat a standard for overheads in pro studios. I'm hoping to get another C414 eventually. Do you think I should compare the response graphs of them before I buy it? Or do you think that they will be close enough to make a stereo pair. AKG definitely a good name among mic companies. The C414s have response graphs for each individual mic that is signed for quality control (at least mine does?). So I'm not sure.

Hmm. It looks like there was a post from me that didn't get through earlier. It was regarding the KSM32s and using large diaphragm mics as overheads in general. I think it would apply to the AKGs as well. I'll try and remember what I said and type it back up tomorrow.
 
SDCs vs. LDCs

Alright. I think what I was saying in my post that didn't get through was that I have heard good things about the KSM32s on this forum and on other forums as well. To the point that some drummers request them for a session. The KSM32 looks pretty much like a KSM44 but without the multi-pattern and dual capsule design. I wonder what makes those mics so popular and even well known by drummers?

Another thing I thought about was some of the ideas that Harvey mentioned in his massive mic thread. Small diaphragm condensers are less sensitive to low level signals, but they capture a more "accurate" signal. The LDCs pick up more of a low level signal because of the size of the diaphragm, but pick up a "hyped" or "colored" sound that isn't as accurate. I wonder if this applies to all LDCs that are used as overheads? Is this what makes the AKG C414, or the Shure KSM32 popular for overheads? I have also read that the Large Diaphragm mics are used to get a better "full kit sound" where close micing isn't as widely used like jazz drums, and that SDCs are meant to more accurately capture the cymbals and get a better stereo image for them.

Now I'm wondering lots of things. Which type of mics would better suit different genres? There's so many different situations I can think of for either type. My pair of Rode NT-1a's have done the best job yet in terms of overheads for me probably because they are just higher quality mics than the Shure PG stuff, or MXL 990s; but are they necessarily the best mics for heavier rock genres? :confused:
 
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