Looking for that pop/rock tone in commercial productions

S

storoi90

New member
Hi,

I am struggling trying to find a tone that is so much used in commercial productions these days.
The tone i am going for is heard in songs like:

Rita Ora - How we do
Katy perry - Last Friday Night
Jessie J - Domino

It´s a really bright funky tone.

I am using logic pro 9, hooking my Ibanez JS1200 up to an Mbox 2 Mini.
I have all the amp stuff in Logic and i also have Guitar Rig 5.

Does anyone here know a trick on how to get that guitar tone?
A patch/preset somewhere?

I have alot of clean settings in Guitar rig 5 and Logic 9´s stuff, but it´s not bright and edgy enough.
 
The guitar tone in Last Friday Night doesn't sound too bright at all. In fact what it sounds like to me is they plugged into a slightly crunchy amp and then rolled down the guitar's volume knob to clean it up and make it a bit dull sounding.

The Jessie J guitar tone is a bit brighter. It's also really thin (they carved out a ton of lows and low mids with EQ). It still doesn't sound all that special to me, definitely not Fender-ish. It's a pretty plain clean tone, maybe a Marshall or Vox emulation would get you close?

The Rita Ora guitar tone definitely sounds like a regular Fender clean (Twin Reverb). There's a bit of compression to make the transients "pop" out a little bit and be a little bit crispy, but you have to listen carefully to hear it. There also sounds like there's some sort of subtle modulation happening in there somewhere.
 
in Last Friday Night guitar sidechaneing from the kick :)

anyway, grab the Strat and get what you want!
 
Most pop recordings have very heavy post-processing even after the amp. The amp emulation is only good for... making your guitar sound like it came from the amp. For guitar recordings, I think EQ is something you cannot run away from, after the amp emulation.

- Generally, you'll notice that most guitar tracks have very little bass in it - use a low-shelf / hi-pass. I know some pro players understand that having too much bass in the guitar is not good for the mix, and set the "bass" knob on their amp to a very low setting - sometimes all the way down to 1.
- Pop recordings also typically have guitars that are smooth in the mid-range / treble. I think that's a combination of good technique, good use of compression and good use of EQ.

Also note:
- Understand how the volume/tone knob and affects the sound.
- Most guitars have multiple pickup selections. Choose wisely before tracking. Once recorded, you can't change it.

Do post some recordings up when you can, and share what you did to achieve the sound :)
 
godchuanz said:
Are you saying that I'm lying? Or that you don't think turning down the bass knob works?
Click to expand...

Both....

I find it hard to believe that you know any "pros" that would do such a thing. Compromising the tone of the amp to preemptively fit in a mix that doesn't exist yet is a stupid thing to do, IMO of course. But hey, whatever floats your boat.
 
Greg_L said:
Both....

I find it hard to believe that you know any "pros" that would do such a thing. Compromising the tone of the amp to preemptively fit in a mix that doesn't exist yet is a stupid thing to do. But hey, whatever floats your boat.
Click to expand...

Yeah, rolling down my bass knob cuts a lot of the spectrum. The only time I cut anything when I record guitar is when I go direct and use the hpf that doesn't sound like I'm cutting anything at all but does make a difference when all the instruments are stacked.


In fact, I've noticed I haven't had to cut many low end in the tracks to clear any mud and have just now realized that the hpf on my preamp is probably the reason...
 
The bass knob on a guitar amp is very rarely very "bassy" to me. In my own twisted way I tend to think of it as more like a "fullness" knob. Of course, amps are different. I was playing through some Fender amps this weekend and even with the bass knob all they way up, it was bright and cutting and spiky as hell. It sounded full and fantastic. Unless you're D Boon reincarnated, I can't think of any instance where turning the bass way down is a good thing.

In fact, your mic placement will play a much larger role in how "bassy" a guitar track is than the bass knob ever will
 
If you read through this thread on the bass setting on guitar amp, you'd find a lot of people roll off their bass knob to stay separated from the bass guitar.
What's Your Bass Knob Set To? - The Gear Page

And I do know people who play guitar for a living (I think that's what constitutes "pro") who have basically said the same thing. When I learnt guitar from the pros, almost all of them had similar advice: when you're playing alone, it's fine. But when you play in a band, roll off the bass.

So... even if it's poor advice, which seems to be perpetuated by plenty of guitar players, I don't think it's fair for anyone to call me a liar. You may disagree with the approach and state why. And especially since it's a matter of opinion, it would be better to just state your opinion and tell people why your approach may be better.

Also, what if I can find a renowned professional guitar player who rolls off the bass knob from his amp? Does that prove that he's stupid?
 
godchuanz said:
If you read through this thread on the bass setting on guitar amp, you'd find a lot of people roll off their bass knob to stay separated from the bass guitar.
What's Your Bass Knob Set To? - The Gear Page

And I do know people who play guitar for a living (I think that's what constitutes "pro") who have basically said the same thing. When I learnt guitar from the pros, almost all of them had similar advice: when you're playing alone, it's fine. But when you play in a band, roll off the bass.

So... even if it's poor advice, which seems to be perpetuated by plenty of guitar players, I don't think it's fair for anyone to call me a liar. You may disagree with the approach and state why. And especially since it's a matter of opinion, it would be better to just state your opinion and tell people why your approach may be better.

Also, what if I can find a renowned professional guitar player who rolls off the bass knob from his amp? Does that prove that he's stupid?
Click to expand...

Yawn, yes it proves he is very stupid if he rolls off his bass before he even knows that he should be rolling off his bass.

You miss my point. If rolling off the bass all the way down to 1 is "your sound", then by all means knock yourself out. Your advice was to do it before you even know that you need to do something like that and you base this off the opinion of others, so in that regard, it's very bad second-hand advice. I personally don't care what you or anyone else does with their guitar tracks as I'm not listening to your music. But bad advice is bad advice and I'm going to speak up against it if I see it and feel like it. There's enough bad, irresponsible misinformation circulating around the interwebz. I know how the bass knob sounds on amps - live and recorded. Feel free to disagree with me. I don't care. We present different ideas, let someone else decide for themselves. Maybe they'll like your way of doing it, I don't care. I don't want anyone to think that's the norm though, cuz it isn't. There's already too much bad sounding home recorded music out there.

As for live, I'm of the opinion that a guitar player shouldn't have to do any tricks to stay "separated" from the bass guitar. If that's the case, one/both of you is doing something very wrong.
 
Hi Greg_L,

I have never said "please do it before you even know that you need to something like that" or anything along those lines. My only point was that a lot of guitar players turn down their bass knob to prevent muddiness in the mix. I have never said "you should always set your bass knob to 1".

I have also not missed your point - I get your point that you think I am a liar, and that nobody should touch the knobs without knowing the mix. The first part I strongly disagree with (obviously), and the second I was willing to hear more. I clarified, and I got your opinion that "any guitar player performing tricks to stay separated from the bass is very stupid." So, thanks for sharing your opinion.

It's fine if you disagree with people, and in fact it's good to share different opinions so we can all learn and discuss what works best. If you see misinformation spreading, please do correct it. If you see opinions that may be "bad advice", please do offer your views and show how your opinion is better. But if you go around insulting others based on your opinion, and basically don't care about other people's feelings or opinions, then you really need to loosen up and rethink your attitude. You called me a liar, stupid, and frankly, without any good reason. I won't say any nasty things about you, but I will say this - I have always been respectful towards all members of the forum, and I hope you extend the same courtesy to me, and to all other users.
 
I haven't called you anything. Calm down. I only pointed out what I feel is gross misinformation. If you take someone disagreeing with you as a personal attack, maybe you are not equipped for the internet.
 
Here, watch this: specifically at 3:25 when he goes over the amp settings. Bass at 8. You wanna roll more bass off of that tone by default? Insanity.

 
Hi Greg_L,

I am quite calm.

When you called bullshit, I did clarify whether you meant I'm lying or the advice is bad, and you said "both". So you did at least call me a liar. And you went on to say some... well, not-so-nice things which I shan't elaborate. I am well-equipped for the internet - I understand that there are assholes on the internet (and in life, but much more so on the net), and I do not want to be one myself.

And now you're missing my point. I didn't say roll off bass by default. I don't know who's that dude in the video or how the audio recording was done, but I'll just say... we can also easily find a video with the bass knob lower than 5. These videos don't prove anything.

My observation still stands: a lot of guitar players roll off the bass knob - and it can help in the mix. Those wanting to get a good tone for their pop-rock recordings are welcome to try and see if it helps in getting that tone you want.
 
Damn, that is close to my dream guitar...'68-'69 SG custom. Strange that not only are the PUs not original, but they switched it back to 2 rather than the 3 that customs come with.

Anyway, it sounded almost as nice as it looked.

I don't have to worry either way as my amp has no bass knob....only volume and tone.
 
godchuanz said:
Hi Greg_L,

I am quite calm.

When you called bullshit, I did clarify whether you meant I'm lying or the advice is bad, and you said "both". So you did at least call me a liar.
Click to expand...
You're right, I did. I apologize for not remembering that part. I do think you are lying about knowing "pros" that just roll the bass off of everything, but that's neither here nor there. Perhaps you are too literal with your definition of "pro". Saying "I know a guy" etc on the internet means nothing.

And you went on to say some... well, not-so-nice things which I shan't elaborate. I am well-equipped for the internet - I understand that there are assholes on the internet (and in life, but much more so on the net), and I do not want to be one myself.
Click to expand...
Wait, are you calling me an asshole? That's pretty asshole-ish of you. :laughings: I don't mind though. I think it's funny.

And now you're missing my point. I didn't say roll off bass by default. I don't know who's that dude in the video or how the audio recording was done, but I'll just say... we can also easily find a video with the bass knob lower than 5. These videos don't prove anything.
Click to expand...
It proves a lot. It proves that just "rolling off the bass" because you think you're supposed to is a foolish thing to do. The tone in the vid is bright as hell even with the bass on 8. I'm sure you can find a vid of whatever you want. This isn't about me vs you. This is about the role of an amp's bass control in a guitar track. I'm thinking maybe you don't fully understand it.

My observation still stands: a lot of guitar players roll off the bass knob - and it can help in the mix. Those wanting to get a good tone for their pop-rock recordings are welcome to try and see if it helps in getting that tone you want.
Click to expand...
Yup, try it and see.
 
heatmiser said:
Damn, that is close to my dream guitar...'68-'69 SG custom. Strange that not only are the PUs not original, but they switched it back to 2 rather than the 3 that customs come with.

Anyway, it sounded almost as nice as it looked.

I don't have to worry either way as my amp has no bass knob....only volume and tone.
Click to expand...

I didn't pay attention to the guitar part. I thought it was an Angus sig model. Whatever the case, I think his whole rig is pretty fucking bad ass. I don't usually go all fanboi on anyone's dumb youtube videos, but that guy's vids are always awesome.
 
Hi Greg_L,

You keep putting words into my mouth, which I find discomforting. I am not calling you any names, and I have requested nicely that you speak respectfully. Instead, you keep hurling insults, and I feel it's really unjustified. But I really don't want to this to escalate, because I don't want to be an asshole (note again: I'm not calling you asshole, I'm saying I don't want to be one). So... if you think I am lying, fine. If you think pros who roll off bass are stupid, fine. If you think I'm an asshole, fine. If you think I don't understand something, fine.

I have said all that I needed to say, and I hope the readers have learnt something from this thread amidst all the insults. For those searching for that holy grail of tone, I did post a link earlier that described a lot of guitar players' bass settings, so do browse through that thread and see if you find anything useful. :)
 
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