Looking for Class B tube preamplifier or amplifier, how many can you remember?

  • Thread starter Thread starter LazerBeakShiek
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As I said before "some confusion over terms"!
Confusion like a MARSHALL 100/100 dual monoblock has a voicing switch.. Modes A and B. However this amp is a class AB design in either voice.. What?

Like a Marsahll 1960A or 1960B cabinet...nothing to do with Class B operation..or the Monoblock's A or B voice switch.

Focosrite Scarlette preamps are Class B...Still not the same thing..
Screenshot_19-2-2025_33157_geekmusician.com.webp
 
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Confusion like a MARSHALL 100/100 dual monoblock has a voicing switch.. Modes A and B. However this amp is a class AB design in either voice.. What?

Like a Marsahll 1960A or 1960B cabinet...nothing to do with Class B operation..or the Monoblock's A or B voice switch.

Focosrite Scarlette preamps are Class B...Still not the same thing..
View attachment 149322
#It's only words...# Like I said, the vast majority of people writing copy* don't know class A or B from their elbow. They just regurgitate some pseudo technical phrase they have picked up.;..No engineer in his right mind would make a "class B" pre amp! It would sound dreadful. WHAT they are is op amp or discrete circuits with p-p output stages biased to AB. But! The current demand from the normal 10k load is so low that they are effectively class A.

*Another big 'lie' is "saturation" a transistor, valve or transformer, when saturated ceases to function. It is hard on. Not, I don't think a quality we want in any amplifier?

Dave.
 
Well, that's 9 minutes of my life that I will never get back. It seems pretty obvious from the clip that the "Bright" and "Deep" switches are nothing more than hi and low pass filters.
Again...copy writers.

Dave.
 
Class B amps are a farce then? haha . A vs B vs AB vs D its all the same...(man are you wrong)

its just words man...

Computers..

just plug it in and use yer ears...haha
 
Class B amps are a farce then? haha . A vs B vs AB vs D its all the same...(man are you wrong)

its just words man...

Computers..

just plug it in and use yer ears...haha
Class D is not a "bias" function of the active devices and is more akin to a modulated Switch Mode Power Supply. Such amplifiers have virtually taken over, most active monitors use class D modules which is in fact interesting since many people must be judging the sound quality of their "fancy" pre amps from the output of a class D amplifier! I have no way to tell but I would bet many headphone amps in later interfaces are class D. Nothing wrong with that if done properly but doing that is expensive and the bean counters tend to get involved!

And you have missed one! Class G. With this you have two or more sets of supply rails and the lower voltages feed say a class A amp but as the signal gets larger a higher voltage class AB stage gets switched in. Not that hard to make as it sounds and knocks spots off class D for low distortion. Efficiency can also be quite good if allied with an SMPSU. Class G also avoids massive RF currents in the OP stage which need to be filtered out.

I commend Douglas Self's book on solid state power amps to anyone keen to learn more.

BTW my "ears" have long gone the way of my 79yr old eyes in terms of any kind of "quality assessment"!

Dave.
 
Class B amps are a farce then? haha . A vs B vs AB vs D its all the same...(man are you wrong)
From Chatgpt:
Yes, Class B tube output circuits do exhibit crossover distortion, which is a common characteristic of Class B amplifier designs. Here's why:

1. Understanding Crossover Distortion in Class B Tube Circuits
  • In a Class B amplifier, the output signal is handled by two active devices (tubes in this case), each responsible for amplifying only half of the waveform (one tube handles the positive half, and the other handles the negative half).
  • At the point where the signal transitions between the two tubes (near zero-crossing voltage), there is a brief moment where both tubes are off or not conducting sufficiently, leading to crossover distortion.
  • This distortion manifests as a small gap or non-linearity in the waveform, introducing unwanted harmonics.
2. How Severe Is the Distortion?
  • Without proper biasing, Class B amplifiers can have significant crossover distortion, especially in low-signal conditions.
  • Compared to solid-state Class B amplifiers, vacuum tubes exhibit less noticeable crossover distortion because of their inherent non-linearity and smooth conduction characteristics.
  • However, in high-fidelity audio applications, crossover distortion is still undesirable and can result in a harsh or gritty sound.
In Fig. A, a Class B amplifier transistor circuit, Vin is presented to the base of Q1 and Q2 simultaneously. Neither transistor will turn on until the voltage at the bases are greater than the voltage drop across the bass and emitter (Vbe) of the transistors. Thus, at the zero crossing of the input voltage, neither transistor will turn on until Vin ~ .7V.

In Fig. B, a slight bias is present at the bases of the transistors. This means that the Vbe threshold is satisfied, so any voltage less than the Vbe of the transistors will turn on the transistors.

The only difference in Class B and Class AB is the biasing of the output transistors to eliminate cross-over distortion.
1741720410735.webp
1741720759511.webp

Fig. A Class B Fig B Class AB
 
You guys lost me way back. What kinda tubes are class B? I have an amp that uses a Westinghouse 300b. Got one of them?
 
It's not the type of tube. It's the configuration. In a Class A system, there is one tube, and it amplifies everything. The voltages swings from maximum to minimum to produce the output. When there is no signal, the tube is still conducting so it runs hot. That's why they are inefficient. Your wave is amplified +/-50% from idle.

In a Class B circuit you have two tubes (or two transistors) and they are set up so that one handles the top half of the wave form and the other is inverted to handle the bottom half of the wave. So the top half goes 0 to 100, and the bottom half goes 0 to -100. The problem is you get distortion at the point where the wave crosses zero and both tubes are off. It takes a moment for the tube to fire up and do it's thing.

That's where Class AB comes it. You have a slight bias applied to both sides so that they are never truly turned to an off state. That helps eliminate the crossover distortion when the signal goes through zero to negative numbers.

A Fender Champ has one 6V6 in class A mode. It put out about 5 watts. A Princeton has two 6V6 tubes in push-pull Class AB mode. It puts out about 12W.
 
You guys lost me way back. What kinda tubes are class B? I have an amp that uses a Westinghouse 300b. Got one of them?
If there is only one valve then it must be operating in class A. The "class" of an amplifier stage has nothing to do with the type of device, valve, Silicon transistor, MOSFET no matter. "Class" dictates the way it handles signal and for two valves (or more) in push pull they can be set to pass zero anode (plate) current in which case they are in "B" and will generate horrible crossover distortion. That is why you will NEVER find class B guitar amp leave alone a hi fi one!

So, you say..."why do some makers say they sell such amplifiers?" I can only conclude they know no better.

Some guitar amps bias rather on the 'cold' side I am reliably informed and such amps will have a rather harsh "gritty" tone*. Some 'booteek' makers bias very hot, sometimes beyond the valve's maximum rating. IMHO and that of many amp techs I have had contact with, this is a bad idea and has no sonic benefit.
For OP valves of the EL34,KT66/88, 6L6 and similar, 25mA per valve seems perfectly fine.

*I am sure there are experience players here who know of/have had amps where it is impossible to get a truly clean tone? Good for the grindy stuff but not chimey.

Dave.
 
Years ago, when I was learning electronics, transistors had taken over from valves. I remember my college lecturer talking about all the various classes and comparing them to cars. Fiat 500s, Citroen 2CVs, Rolls Royce - and comparing the 2 stroke, 4 stroke and 4, 6 and 8 cyclinder versions. Of course we all dismissed the low capacity small number of cylinder ones and looked at the V6 and V8 big designs - and his correlation to valve (tube) designs made perfect sense. Then he wrecked it by pointing to the big smoky bulldozers in the car park. His point was that clever engineering could make the 'worst' design the best, while the best engineering could also be terrible used in the wrong application.

Amplifier design constantly evolved as requirements changed. Class A, B, AB and the others all have the capability to do the job - the snag of course is price. Tubes and then solid state devices all relied on the spec sheet - showing what the limits were, and you designed products to do only what you needed. You could design in low distortion, higher powers, frequency response and lots of other features - but you rarely could have all of them.

There is an irony to musicians and technology. We're the only group who demand sonic coherence, so that we can then wreck it with another gizmo down the line.

Guitar amps are the best example - if you feed in a commercial track .wav file from a decent device and listen to the result - through built in or external speakers, nobody would ever think that was remotely hi fi.

That's why we'll never agree - all the flaws in the designs that 100% are bad, are perceived as good. Who cares what class the amp is if the result is good for the purpose? If you want sonic coherence look at audio amps where the brief is to just make what goes in come out louder. I've got a Behringer 2000W bass head, Class D - light and was 100% reliable and it just worked. I wanted something that was just louder than the older ones I've had. Then we went totally silent and I DI'd the bass. Sounded the same to me.
 
Years ago, when I was learning electronics,...................

Amplifier design constantly evolved as requirements changed. Class A, B, AB
Sure, sure.
That's why we'll never agree -
No man, this time I was really getting through to them..
all the flaws in the designs that 100% are bad, are perceived as good. Who cares what class the amp is if the result is good for the purpose? If you want sonic coherence look at audio amps where the brief is to just make what goes in come out louder. I've got a Behringer 2000W bass head, Class D - light and was 100% reliable and it just worked.
Still using the Marshall VBA400 with a ADA MB-1 and B500 power. Thats 4x12's , 2x10's , a 15" sub and a 350 watt 4" compression driver 'SLAP"
. Sounded the same to me.
If things are sounding 'the same' that shouldn't something is probably wrong.
 
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