Live sounding drums

[Fire Dome]

I am new here so i didn't know where to put this so this seemed like as good a place as any.

I have been doing my own home recording for about 4 or so months and last weekend my band came round to record one of our song in cubase SL 2.2.35 ready for our vocalist to record over the top when we purchase a Rode NT1A in the near future. I had already recorded the drums the weekend before because it takes me a long time to get it sounding anywhere decent and my band mates get bored of recording quiker than me.
So yesterday I went to do a basic mix of the three tracks (Guitar, bass, drums) and noticed that the drums sound really 'live'. They also sound really distant in the mix even if i bump up the level so they are more prominent.

if some one can tell me how to post MP3s i'll put up a couple for your opinion.

Here's some technical details of what I have dome so far and what I use/used to record.

On the drums i set up the inbuilt compressor in cubase like this.

Threshold: -26.0 db
Ratio: 3.3:1
Attack: 10.0ms
Release: Auto
Make up gain: 7.5 db

I use a souncraft Spirit E12 mixer with a Tascam US122 conected to the auxiliaries like this


US122 Spirit E12
Input L-------------Aux1
Input R-------------Aux2.

I use windows XP pro (not quite sure on computer specs but they aren't really relevant here)
with Cubase SL 2.2.35

The drums were recorded with Shur mics. PG52 on bass, PG56 onntoms, PG81 on Overheads and and SM57 on the snare.

The guitars were recorded with the SM57 on the speaker and 2 Audio Technica Xm3s as room mics (not bad mics)

The bass wen't straight into the desk.

Ther we go any help would be greatly appreciated.

Dave

 

[Bulls Hit]

It sounds like you might have phase issues between your drum mics.

Have a look at the waveforms in your s/w and see if any peaks are occurring over the troughs on the different drum tracks. If so, you can slide one or 2 of them along a bit so they line up

 

[saxopholus]

Rather than just compressing the drums, u could try some gating as well. You may even need to run an expander and then compress to make the hits tighter if that is what u want them to sound like. With the gating you can then push the gain with out bringing up the background noise of the room.

Better explain what gating is: u set up a noise gate so that you only let thru volumes higher than the threshold u set. When u compress something with autogain you'll bring up the levels of ambient noise of the room u are recording in and it will sound live. With the gating and then compression you will get more of the hits and less of the background stuff and keep them more uniform in the mix. This should bring them up in the mix compared with the other instruments. The native Cubase 'Dynamics' vst should help for gating and then compression.

Watch out for phase issues also when using so many mics.

Btw the native Cubase compressor isn't the greatest, try the TC Native bundle compressor if u have it, it's good with drums imo.

 

[Fire Dome]

wow quick reply.
I know what noise gating is but what is an expander? Are you saying that i should put a noise gate before the compressor or scrap the compressor altogether.
are there any free compressor/expanders/noise gate plugins i can download. i can't afford any more gear cause i have just spent alot of my money on outfitting my home studio.

And finally can someone tell me how to put up mp3s so people can download them cos i realise it's hard to give specific advice without hearing the piece.

Cheers dave

p.s I probably should have mentioned this in my original post but i don't have the luxury of being able to record all the seperate drums to seperate tracks so they are all in one stereo wave form.

 

[saxopholus]

For mp3's either get someone to host them like www.ampcast.com or www.soundclick.com (free). Upload them to there then link the address. Or attach the mp3 as a zip file with the message up to a certain size I imagine, not sure what max is. Winrar is free, use that if u don't have a zipping program.

An expander is the opposite of a compressor basically. It increases the dynamics of a sound. Compression reduces them and thus keeps the level more steady. Expansion will give you more of the hit and less of the background noise. If them u gate the drum recording it will chop out the background and then you can compress to keep the hits more steady in the mix without having the ambient noise. (I don't think that there is a native expander in Cubase tho, Sound Forge does if u have it).

Depends what sound you are going for really, but u could then add some reverb from a plug-in to give it its own space. But then of course if u have recorded it in a nice room you may not need too much or any. Post up some samples and I imagine then we wil have a better idea.

A few freebies at http://www.voxengo.com/freevst/ but check www.kvr-vst.com and http://acidfreak.future.easyspace.com/ for more freeware. Here is a free expander but haven't tried it myself (http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/programs/Dr_Expander/). Also a compressor: http://www.camelaudio.com/camelphatfree.php?flash=1

Sax.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

p.s I probably should have mentioned this in my original post but i don't have the luxury of being able to record all the seperate drums to seperate tracks so they are all in one stereo wave form.

Not to sound like a jerk, but doing drums that way almost guarantees suckage unless you are specifically looking for a lo-lo-fi vintage sub-garage sound.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

Depends what sound you are going for really, but u could then add some reverb from a plug-in to give it its own space. But then of course if u have recorded it in a nice room you may not need too much or any.

Hrm... he complains that his drums sound too distant and you want to add more reverb? That's like saying I'm dying of lung cancer--and suggesting that the cure would be to give me brain cancer too.

 

[hasbeen]

Not to sound like a jerk, but doing drums that way almost guarantees suckage unless you are specifically looking for a lo-lo-fi vintage sub-garage sound.

I think you should reconsider this statement, as some of the best drum sounds ever recorded have been done using 3 mics.

 

[Bulls Hit]

What Cloneboy is getting at is it's no good recording your drums onto 1 track, regardless of how many mics you use. If there were, say phase issues during recording, then it's there forever. With each drum mic on a seperate track you can fix that stuff up

 

[saxopholus]

Hrm... he complains that his drums sound too distant and you want to add more reverb? That's like saying I'm dying of lung cancer--and suggesting that the cure would be to give me brain cancer too.

Err yes but that depends on how the gating and compression affects the drums in the first place, although if you can't record each mic to a different channels then this certainly makes a difference. In any case the reverb I was suggesting was only for colouration if the room wasn't great, a touch only of wet signal. Fair enough tho, it depends on the sound in the first place.

Personally when processing breaks I use Recycle to slice them and then envelope the hits to taste. You have control over the length of the hits and then compress, reverb, bitcrush, etc. to suit. I'm coming from a different angle though.

Only suggestions dude, no need to bite my head off.

 

[Fire Dome]

I said in my second post that I don't have the luxury to record onto seperate tracks i.e. i don't have the hardware and i can't afford to buy it thank. But if you want to send me some free stuff then that's cool
Anyway heres a link to the mp3s.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/breakfaithmusic.htm
The first is the drums only with no compressor. to my ears they don't sond too bad especially through good speakers. and the second is an exerpt of the song with all the instruments. The drums have the compressor set up as per my first post.

Listen and give me your commets/tips. And please try to be constructive!!

Dave

 

[rudibass2]

I think you should reconsider this statement, as some of the best drum sounds ever recorded have been done using 3 mics.

If your using a Tascam US-122 then you should be able to get at least 2 tracks , from your left and right mains out of your mixer . I also track a third stereo channel in DAW so I have an extra one in case I screw up the Left and Right mono . I have had good results recording this way . 7 close mic's , 2 overheads condensers, hi hat condenser and 2 room mic's .

All into a Mackie 1604 16 channel . Each channel trimmed , panned and EQ'ed to spec .

The problem with post editing is that compression , reverb , etc . , will effect your cymbals in a bad way most times and ruin your whole track .

So if you don't have the luxury of multi tracking each mic , spend your time pre mixing , EQing and experimenting with mic placement and tuning your set .