Listen to some tunes here

  • Thread starter Thread starter barry c
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OK, Good at Sports, I'm not a song writing expert, but it sound well structured, story line moves in a typical direction, it is rather predictable, a couple of good clever lines, (trade in my GPA), etc.

But now, I ask, even with a well crafted song, and I'm not talking about the songs intention, what's the purpose of the song to you?

I want to craft a well written song, but I will forgo typical structure to achieve more thought out of the listener. Tease at words, use words where the listener has to think about what I am saying.

Good at Sports was pretty straight forward and there was little to no teasing or challenge to the listener. Not a bad song by any stretch of the imagination, but where does it raise above all the other good songs?

You could take the same song, use a bunch of double entendres to make the song sound innocent, but raunchy at the same time. If this is what you did, I missed it and now show my ignorance. :D
 
DM60 said:
OK, Good at Sports, I'm not a song writing expert, but it sound well structured, story line moves in a typical direction, it is rather predictable, a couple of good clever lines, (trade in my GPA), etc.

But now, I ask, even with a well crafted song, and I'm not talking about the songs intention, what's the purpose of the song to you?

I want to craft a well written song, but I will forgo typical structure to achieve more thought out of the listener. Tease at words, use words where the listener has to think about what I am saying.

Good at Sports was pretty straight forward and there was little to no teasing or challenge to the listener. Not a bad song by any stretch of the imagination, but where does it raise above all the other good songs?

You could take the same song, use a bunch of double entendres to make the song sound innocent, but raunchy at the same time. If this is what you did, I missed it and now show my ignorance. :D
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You can take the greatest song in the world and do something different with it.

Your missing alot of what the song has in it. For one it gets you involved in the story right away, first line is action, no fluff to fill space, no wasted words. You can see the whole story without seeing a video, thats old school writing.

if you want to write how you described it can be done, Pink Floyd did a good job at esoteric writing, but if a publisher asks you for a song, that is not what he wants.

if your trying to challenge your listener, good luck with that. Double entendres are mostly used in country music, but sometimes metal. like sexual inuendos etc. Writing a detailed story that puts you there, is much more "challenging for the writer"

I can write a double entendre right now if I wanted

"How can I write this wrong"

"Those are the Brakes" not breaks....

I got hundreds of titles like that Witty yes, but not challenging for me
 
here ya go...

Those are the Brakes

Dad cut me loose
in an empty parkin lot
I was sixteen
clumsy as could be

With the grace of a moose
bounced from spot to spot
I was pitch green
dad wasn’t helpin me

I knew in his heart he meant well
He told me to accelerate, I was scared to hell

(then he said, Son)

Those are the brakes
make sure you know where they are
cause when you least expect it
somethin cuts across your way
make no mistake
you can’t always see it comin
always look for signals
if you hear nothin else I say,
those are the brakes

Like my social drink
cold pint of Genesee
and if it moves me
I'll take a tote of bud

I know a a guy who socializes too hard
when my buzz turns to church bells, I leave the bar
(cause like dad said)

Those are the brakes
make sure you know where they are
cause when you least expect it
somethin cuts across your way
and make no mistake
you can’t always see it comin
always look for signals
and if you hear nothin else I say,
know, those are the brakes

Last night when I had you in my arms
forgot all about what dad said
It felt so right, didn't think what's at stake
now it's out of my hands, lost sight of my brakes

Those are the brakes
make sure you know where they are
cause when you least expect it
somethin cuts across your way
and make no mistake
you can’t always see it comin
always look for signals
and if you hear nothin else I say,
those are the brakes
 
barry c said:
Your missing alot of what the song has in it. For one it gets you involved in the story right away, first line is action, no fluff to fill space, no wasted words. You can see the whole story without seeing a video, thats old school writing.
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As a listener, I did not get pulled into the story. To get one involved into the story, you have to draw me there. I wasn't drawn. As a listener, there was nothing there that even asked me to come back again. I heard the story, said hey nice, but didn't feel drawn back to it.

Some of my other comments were more examples, not saying that is how to do it. Some of the best story songs I know, American Pie, My Daddy's Hat (Chet Atkins sings it, not sure of the writer), Taxi (Harry Chapin), Fast Car (Tracey Chapman) just to name a few. It always draws you back, even when you are sure of the outcome.
 
DM60 said:
As a listener, I did not get pulled into the story. To get one involved into the story, you have to draw me there. I wasn't drawn. As a listener, there was nothing there that even asked me to come back again. I heard the story, said hey nice, but didn't feel drawn back to it.

Some of my other comments were more examples, not saying that is how to do it. Some of the best story songs I know, American Pie, My Daddy's Hat (Chet Atkins sings it, not sure of the writer), Taxi (Harry Chapin), Fast Car (Tracey Chapman) just to name a few. It always draws you back, even when you are sure of the outcome.
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Well im not as good as those guys, thats a pretty high bar. Tracy Chapmans fast car is all performance based, the guitar hook draws you in, the story doesnt even make sense if you break it down, the tenses are off, she talks about things that are happening, yet she hasnt left. I wont put that one in the other greats you mentioned, although American Pie is way out there as far as menaing.
 
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Well, for Fast Car, I got it. And yes, American Pie is too high a bar. Fair enough.

The lyrics you have The Future is Rosie, of course they are good, but kind of been done before, like many times before. As for the other meaning, you're too clever for me to follow on that one. Reads like, poor schmuck, looser, meets the girl of his dream, soforth and so on. I get it.

Now, here is my point, in the right music setting, these words can be pulled out of the doldrums onto something bigger than the words. To me, that is why song writing takes on the second part, where does it sit (inside the notes/instruments). Am I a trailer in a trailer park, or am I a trailer on a lake? Now, that is the difference.
 
DM60 said:
Well, for Fast Car, I got it. And yes, American Pie is too high a bar. Fair enough.

The lyrics you have The Future is Rosie, of course they are good, but kind of been done before, like many times before. As for the other meaning, you're too clever for me to follow on that one. Reads like, poor schmuck, looser, meets the girl of his dream, soforth and so on. I get it.

Now, here is my point, in the right music setting, these words can be pulled out of the doldrums onto something bigger than the words. To me, that is why song writing takes on the second part, where does it sit (inside the notes/instruments). Am I a trailer in a trailer park, or am I a trailer on a lake? Now, that is the difference.
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lol Doldrums. Done before? yeah, but not said like this. Thats all i can try to do. I still hear "baby' "I Love You" etc every day on the radio. Any song you hear anywhere has been done before. Im not trying to reinvent the wheel, and you shouldnt really.

I havent heard anything new in my entire life, all music is borrowed from the blues. secondly, in order for a listener to enjoy your song, they need guidance, they need to string together what they have heard already to make sense of your song.

Im a better singer and music writer than I am a lyric writer, I had to work hard to get decent at lyrics.

Im pretty sure if this was recorded full blast, you'd appreciate it more.

Let me see your songs, will break them down.
 
https://soundcloud.com/dm60/the-loss

Where are the lyrics? so far i hear the riff from pink floyds "wish you were here" This has been done so many times
too many to count!

And all i hear for a lyric is and "I lost you" you should use a different line than that, and not repeat it a hundred times. It sound slike it might work for an ending, but not throughout the whole song.

You got some soul, but your songs are really raw, you can tighten them up considerably
 
barry c said:
lol Im a better singer and music writer than I am a lyric writer, I had to work hard to get decent at lyrics.

Im pretty sure if this was recorded full blast, you'd appreciate it more.
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Yes, and that is my point. How do you take something, as you put it very well, not your best, and make it better. That is where, for me at least, trying to make it sound fresh by how it is wrapped and presented. Even though it is not new, if I can get a note in there, a beat, sound, what do I know, something, and make it at least feel fresh.

Hey, I know my stuff isn't hitting anything over the wall. That is why I am comfortable writing, composing, scratching an itch, nothing more. I have no delusions. But it does serve a purpose for me, and that is, "here is what I have to say, and here it is."

The reason why I am here on this board is to learn to record better and make a better presentation of my songs so, even if people do say, hum, nothing special, they might think (and I am stretching here), the way he presented it to me made the old sound new.

So, even though your goal is not to become good at recording, you owe your songs the best home you can give them.
 
Barry, you need to start your own "Sticky" thread - "Critical Listening and Crafty Composition". Break it down, tell us how it's done.
 
I didn't listen, I thing there is a problem with your link...
 
barry c said:
https://soundcloud.com/dm60/the-loss

Where are the lyrics? so far i hear the riff from pink floyds "wish you were here" This has been done so many times
too many to count!

And all i hear for a lyric is and "I lost you" you should use a different line than that, and not repeat it a hundred times. It sound slike it might work for an ending, but not throughout the whole song.

You got some soul, but your songs are really raw, you can tighten them up considerably
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Well, you said it as well, nothing new under the sun. And it goes, "I found", "I lost", "I will find". I never claimed to be a great song writer. I think it is very hard. I'm just writing. That song is actually more about the death of a life long partner. But yes, I know it is not new. My focus was just to record and write. Not much more really.

I want to say thanks for the Pink Floyd reference. I've never learned a PF song, and to be able to play anything close to them I take as a compliment. I like to think it is a little more folksy than PF, but hey I'll take the complement anyway I can get it. ;)
 
DM60 said:
Well, you said it as well, nothing new under the sun. And it goes, "I found", "I lost", "I will find". I never claimed to be a great song writer. I think it is very hard. I'm just writing. That song is actually more about the death of a life long partner. But yes, I know it is not new. My focus was just to record and write. Not much more really.

I want to say thanks for the Pink Floyd reference. I've never learned a PF song, and to be able to play anything close to them I take as a compliment. I like to think it is a little more folksy than PF, but hey I'll take the complement anyway I can get it. ;)
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Just about anything you play is going to sound like something somebody did before. And that's just the commercial stuff that we hear, there are probably billions of songs out there, from top 40, to underground, to people on soundclick and soundcloud, to people who do small gigs with an acoustic, in EVERY genre. The chances of a part sounding the same, when we only have 12 notes to work with, are astronomically great.

Even when you try to be different, somebody has done that too. Lady Gaga is Basicly 2k's version of Madonna, many of their songs sound the same.

Dont buy into this idea of being unique, it doesnt exist. Blues music spawned into rock, jazz, country, r & b, bluegrass etc. Classical and eastern music are the exceptions, bu im sure in India, composers have the same issue.

The only thing that really sounds different is the production techniques, and the personal antics.
 
barry c said:
The only thing that really sounds different is the production techniques, and the personal antics.
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I think that is as good as it gets. One thing, the voice is a unique. Never has been one like it and will never be another. Everyone can say that. Everyone.
 
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