Leaving your axe out of it's case

[Zaphod B]

You ever notice the GC has all their high end acoustics hang on the wall? They usually have the cheaper ones sitting on stands. So are actually hangs with little leather straps connected to the tuning keys.

Of course they have humidifers and and dehumidifers as well.

Sure, they're hanging the good stuff on the wall so that the pimply-faced shredder wannabes can't just grab them.

 

[crazydoc]

What's a case?

 

[jfrog]

What's a case?

It's like a gig bag, only heavier.


and more expensive.

 

[Light]

I have been pondering the thought of building a display wall rack for my guitars.

The thought of having quick access and the pleasure of looking at them in their beauty, appeals to me....but....the thought, they could be damaged when left out of there protective cases appalls me!!


What would be the safest amount of time to leave an axe out in the element of temp and humidity changes....a few hours....days...weeks...?

My studio is in the basement and it is not a super humid one. There are no signs of mildew nor musty smells either. I leave a window cracked open most of the time too...even when the air conditioning is on, so fresh air is constantly being circulated by the ceiling fans.

Can the gravity of them hanging vertically by the headstock cause any damage...?

I always keep mine in there cases.



Thanks in advance...

True

Do you have kids? Or any other little critters hanging around your house? If so, it is a bad idea.

Your guitar will always be safest in the case. First of all, the case protects your guitar from physical blows which can damage it. Second of all (and perhaps more importantly), the case is a much smaller volume of air, so it is much easier to maintain a consistent environment.

This is one where I can't really tell you what to do, as I keep all of my guitars on the walls (no kids or dogs, plus I don't have enough cases for all of my guitars; it's kind of like the cobblers children being barefoot), but my strong advice is to always keep your guitars in their cases.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[knightfly]

I keep some in cases, some out; but I consider humidity/temperature control more important - any wooden instrument - piano, violin, guitar, etc, thrives best at somewhere between 42-45% humidity and 65-72 degrees or so - it is CHANGES in their environment that are bad more than anything. This, because every time the temperature or humidity changes, the wood parts try to re-balance their moisture content and they MOVE at any joints, not to mention larger surfaces wanting to bow one direction or the other.

A few years ago I bought 4 of these

http://www.natlallergy.com/prod/1526/acu-rite-humidity-monitor-thermometer.html

and I keep one in each area where musical instruments live - if the humidity rises (or temperature shifts by more than about 5 degrees) I do whatever it takes to keep it stable.

In my area, I've NEVER needed to humidify to keep the humidity ABOVE 40%, but I regularly use a DEhumidifier to keep it DOWN under 45% - in summer, the AC takes care of keeping the humidity low enough, and in winter the dehumidifier also adds enough heat to the area to keep temps reasonable.

BTW, in winter (Oregon) I typically empty the water from the dehumidifier at the rate of about 2-3 gallons a DAY - and that's just to maintain 42% target RH.

It's kind of interesting to note that Santa Cruz guitars recommends keeping THEIR instruments at a bit higher RH than most -

http://www.santacruzguitar.com/care/index.html

I lived there (Santa Cruz) for several years, so I understand that these guitars are MADE in a higher humidity condition, so it's understandable that they would recommend conditions that mimic "home"... Steve

 

[jimistone]

Guitars in music stores never get put in a case. They just hang there...sometimes for years.

I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[RezN8]

Careful With That Axe, Eugene!

hi True- I think you should be fine displaying your axes on the walls. I do agree the finish will fade over time. If hanging from the neck concerns you, then place some support at the bottom to relieve the tension. Maybe you could use the bottom part of a guitar stand for that.

Ultimately, I would choose the area carefully though. Make sure the area on and/or near the wall is a relatively stable environment. In other words, the temp, humidity, air currents do not fluctuate drastically.

(Sorry 'bout all the big words there...)

Anyway, about 20 years ago I came up with this idea for a guitar case with a plexiglass face that you could hand on the wall. It had a built in humidifier and even display lights. I even thought of using UV tinted glass - or use lenses that darken with sunlight - as an expensive option for the most prized guitars.

I showed my dad the plans and he shot them down. I threw the plans in a draw and forgot about them. Now I see they have ads for the exact same product in the back of guitar player mags. Oh well. My point is a display case might offer better protection than simply hanging a guit on the wall.

hope the info helps.
All the best, Rez

 

[true-eurt]

Would they be better if they had been cased? Dunno. They certainly would have been played less. An acceptable trade-off.

As you and others have said about the playtime...I agree with that. This is one of the main reasons for wanting to display them on the wall....easy accessibility. I have several guitars and love them ALL for their own personalities, but dragging out the cases and changing on a whim's notice(which I want to do often)...is a pain, and less apt to happen if I have to dig out the guitar in case...also the cases w/guitars are cluttering my studio room, as there is barely enough room for the instruments and recording gear already there(the small drumkit is out in the living area).

And hanging the axes on the wall would open up space for more GASsss.....

As far as the finish goes, I am not concerned if they show signs of wear from being 'used' a lot....I just don't want any 'abuse/neglect' damage to them.

And although none of my babies are super expensive guitars, they are priceless to me...

Thanks Ermghoti

I don't even have cases for any of my guitars. They sit around on stands or leaned against the couch or something. They play fine, look fine, and sound fine. I've had this one strat for about 12 years now, and its never seen the inside of a case. It's perfectly fine.

Thanks Greg

As far as hanging goes, I don't know the answer to that. I would be inclined to have the guitar supported from the bottom of the body if it were going to be a long-term situation.

Thanks Zap...that is a good idea too.

If I had to take them out of their cases every time - they would never get played.

Thanks Metalhead

Ummmm....how come we're all whispering?????
If you're down in a basement you may be OK, but beware!

Yah, I am in a basement and the studio is an enclosed room(used to be a bedroom) without windows.

I notice the temp fluctuation is less in the studio than in the living area...partly because of the closed in, non-window enviroment..?

Thanks Frog.

While you are correct that water vapor diffuses away from inside the case, as long as it is kept charged the humidifier is able to supply it faster than it can escape.

But my guitars and basses live on stands.

There is not a de-humidifier, but that may very well be a good thing for the room.

Thanks gunn

Re: hanging by the headstock: a tuned six string has about 250 or so pounds of tension between the tuners and bridge. I can't imagine adding nine pounds of guitar to that load bothering anything. The exceptions are nitro lacquer reacting with latex rubber (my Les Paul has "rack rash") or the possibility of a fall.

Actually, wouldn't hanging it by the headstock actually be relieving 9 pounds of tension? Or no wait, I'm confused. Gravity would be pulling the wooen parts apart, but the string tension is pulling the parts together, right? I suck at physics. Either way, I think it would be just fine, maybe even helpful. Might be like hanging in gravity boots to align your spine.

Yah..I hadn't thought about the string tension andy and erm!

Thanks to you both ermghoti and andy for stirring my brainwaves on that!!...

 

[true-eurt]

Hey! I resemble that remark!

And who are you?

You ever notice the GC has all their high end acoustics hang on the wall? They usually have the cheaper ones sitting on stands. So are actually hangs with little leather straps connected to the tuning keys.

Of course they have humidifers and and dehumidifers as well.

Perhaps...but there is no way I am hanging my guitars by their tuning keys.

The dehumidifier is big on my list though.

Thanks RandyW

What's a case?

Thanks for lending your crazy, doc.....

Your guitar will always be safest in the case. First of all, the case protects your guitar from physical blows which can damage it. Second of all (and perhaps more importantly), the case is a much smaller volume of air, so it is much easier to maintain a consistent environment.

This is one where I can't really tell you what to do, as I keep all of my guitars on the walls (no kids or dogs, plus I don't have enough cases for all of my guitars; it's kind of like the cobblers children being barefoot), but my strong advice is to always keep your guitars in their cases.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

My kids are all grown...I have grandkids, but the same as when my own kids were wee ones...they are not a concern.

They all know the rules of the studio and respect them. I have a 3 yr old grandson, still in the learning process, but he's already learned the NO drinks rule. I am still working on the ask-before-touch one though.

Although is forte' is drums and has a set of his own, he loves to try out the percussion instruments and my keys and is fascinated by my bass when I have it out..(I've given all the grandkids have their own instruments too, so as not to be as tempted by granny's!!!)...did I just call myself granny?

I've had way more problems with adults than kids. My, I'm chatty today Light!!

Geesh...all this conflicting advice...I dunno...I think the open display is winning out on this demon turmoil. But if ever I own a real LP...it won't be living on the wall.

You didn't mention the hanging tension on the headstock/neck/body...so I am assuming you agree it is a safe practice too...?

Thanks Light!

I keep some in cases, some out; but I consider humidity/temperature control more important - any wooden instrument - piano, violin, guitar, etc, thrives best at somewhere between 42-45% humidity and 65-72 degrees or so - it is CHANGES in their environment that are bad more than anything. This, because every time the temperature or humidity changes, the wood parts try to re-balance their moisture content and they MOVE at any joints, not to mention larger surfaces wanting to bow one direction or the other.

A few years ago I bought 4 of these

http://www.natlallergy.com/prod/1526/acu-rite-humidity-monitor-thermometer.html

and I keep one in each area where musical instruments live - if the humidity rises (or temperature shifts by more than about 5 degrees) I do whatever it takes to keep it stable.

Steve

Hey Steve...thanks for the link. Those are very very affordable!

I have an electric violin in a hardcase, but my Cello is in a very thinly padded gigbag(no, I don't play, only make some god-awful racket on them). I should wall display them also!!

Proper care attention has not been given the violin and cello and easy access should help on that...so there is another thought to ponder.

Guitars in music stores never get put in a case. They just hang there...sometimes for years.

I wouldn't worry about it.

Thanks for the input Jimi

hi True- I think you should be fine displaying your axes on the walls. I do agree the finish will fade over time. If hanging from the neck concerns you, then place some support at the bottom to relieve the tension. Maybe you could use the bottom part of a guitar stand for that.

Ultimately, I would choose the area carefully though. Make sure the area on and/or near the wall is a relatively stable environment. In other words, the temp, humidity, air currents do not fluctuate drastically.

(Sorry 'bout all the big words there...)

Anyway, about 20 years ago I came up with this idea for a guitar case with a plexiglass face that you could hand on the wall. It had a built in humidifier and even display lights. I even thought of using UV tinted glass - or use lenses that darken with sunlight - as an expensive option for the most prized guitars.

I showed my dad the plans and he shot them down. I threw the plans in a draw and forgot about them. Now I see they have ads for the exact same product in the back of guitar player mags. Oh well. My point is a display case might offer better protection than simply hanging a guit on the wall.

hope the info helps.
All the best, Rez

Hi Rez!!

The support on the bottom of the guitar is something to think about...Zap brought that option up too...and I think your display case idea for those special axes, is great... be really cool...with the display lights. Makes one think about having a larger recording area.

You know...you could still go with your idea. There are always different versions of ideas and products. Just find out what the other guy has missed or lacks and go for it !!!

Thanks Rez and good luck!!

 

[muttley600]

Re: hanging by the headstock: a tuned six string has about 250 or so pounds of tension between the tuners and bridge. I can't imagine adding nine pounds of guitar to that load bothering anything. The exceptions are nitro lacquer reacting with latex rubber (my Les Paul has "rack rash") or the possibility of a fall.

Haven't been around much lately. I've been out of town recently at a few shows and stuff. Glad to be back in the real world.

Your average set of six strings will have no where near that much tension on them. The most you are likely to find on a six guitar these days is on a set of Acoustic lights at 12-53's. They would typically give you around 165-180lb max depending on core material and how they are wound.

As to the question in general it depends entirely on the guitar and where in the world you live. Some parts of the world have climate changes that will ruin a guitar others are stable enough that you can do what ever you like to it and it will hold. It depends on so many things. The timbers, the type of guitar, the glues used. The setup, the finish, the list goes on. The things that are certain are that there will be less potential problems if you maintain the environment as stable as possible whether it is in a case or not. Wood above all does not like changes in moisture first heat second and mechanical stress third. So the question of hanging guitars over sitting them on a stand is not an issue. Avoid quick changes in the environment first. If its been in the car in the cold wet weather let it sit in the case for a while before you get it out when you get it in the house or at the gig. We all know how one day the same guitar can seem to play easier or be stiffer to play thats the climate making changes to the instrument. Its normal just don't let it happen quickly.

A lot of people advise the use of humidifiers, either cigar box style in the case or big household types. They work, but again it depends on where you live. Be aware of your local climate and how it varies, especially where relative humidity changes are concerned. Get a good barometre and stick it where you keep your guitars. Watch it for a year. Move it inside and outside when you have aircon or heating on and see how big the change is, you'd be surprised.

I have all sorts of moisture measuring equipment in my workshop and maintain the temperature and moisture content in workshop differently than the wood store. When wood comes from the store after maybe 5 or 10 years it sits in a corner of the workshop for a good few months and I inspect it often looking for potential problems. Most of us makers do.

In a nutshell

1/ learn about your local climate and environment over a typical year.
2/ Avoid fast changes in moisture, temp, mechanical stress in that order.
3/ Keep the local environment under control as best you can.

Most of all realise that your guitar will react to changes in the season and changes in the weather its what they do just like you and me. My rule of thumb is that if the climate is so bad that I wouldn't be happy to leave my kids out in it without a coat or sun cream.I wouldn't leave my guitars there either. Sometimes unavoidable I understand.

 

[knightfly]

"Makes one think about having a larger recording area"

Be careful here - keep in mind that even solid body, but ESPECIALLY acoustic instruments, all have resonances. An acoustic guitar is, in effect, a helmholtz resonator. Placing one or more acoustic instruments in the same space you are attempting to achieve a FLAT recording isn't gonna work, because each of these "helmholtz traps" will change your acoustic space -

Ya know all those cool pix layouts in Mix, etc, where all the axes are proudly displayed right next to the miller chair, the Neve console, etc? Bullshit. Purely eye candy, if the engineer really IS one. Only there for the photo op. When there's actual tracking/mixing being done, all those buzzing, resonating goodies better be in a different room - just a thought... Steve

 

[muttley600]

I have an electric violin in a hardcase, but my Cello is in a very thinly padded gigbag(no, I don't play, only make some god-awful racket on them). I should wall display them also!!

Tru - you need to be a lot more careful how you store and display violin family instruments (even cheap ones) than you do for nearly all guitar family instruments. Apart from the fact that the varnish and glues used are more susceptible to climate than most guitars they are built lighter and you can seriously damage a bowed instrument if the soundpost is allowed to fall or the bridge tips forward. The joints in the structure are more fragile. There is also alot of downward pressure on the belly and the neck joint is a butt joint not a dovetail, mortice or bolt on.

Those you should keep in the case or somewhere you know the climate is perfectly controlled.

 

[true-eurt]

In a nutshell

1/ learn about your local climate and environment over a typical year.
2/ Avoid fast changes in moisture, temp, mechanical stress in that order.
3/ Keep the local environment under control as best you can.

Most of all realise that your guitar will react to changes in the season and changes in the weather its what they do just like you and me. My rule of thumb is that if the climate is so bad that I wouldn't be happy to leave my kids out in it without a coat or sun cream.I wouldn't leave my guitars there either. Sometimes unavoidable I understand.

I live in the USA in the midwest...Missouri in fact...a climate-quick-change state....if you don't like the weather, just wait 12-24 hours...it will change !!!

It is medium-high humidity... On a 1 to 10 scale of humidity in the continental USA..1 being lowest, it would rank between 7-10, depending on season and month and then factor in the winters with heat source going for up to 5 months drying the air...this is not a guitar friendly state.

Thanks muttley

 

[true-eurt]

Tru - you need to be a lot more careful how you store and display violin family instruments (even cheap ones) than you do for nearly all guitar family instruments. Apart from the fact that the varnish and glues used are more susceptible to climate than most guitars they are built lighter and you can seriously damage a bowed instrument if the soundpost is allowed to fall or the bridge tips forward. The joints in the structure are more fragile. There is also alot of downward pressure on the belly and the neck joint is a butt joint not a dovetail, mortice or bolt on.

Those you should keep in the case or somewhere you know the climate is perfectly controlled.

Thank you for taking the time to reply and add this muttley. I was about to make a big boo-boo.

"Makes one think about having a larger recording area"

Be careful here - keep in mind that even solid body, but ESPECIALLY acoustic instruments, all have resonances. An acoustic guitar is, in effect, a helmholtz resonator. Placing one or more acoustic instruments in the same space you are attempting to achieve a FLAT recording isn't gonna work, because each of these "helmholtz traps" will change your acoustic space -

Ya know all those cool pix layouts in Mix, etc, where all the axes are proudly displayed right next to the miller chair, the Neve console, etc? Bullshit. Purely eye candy, if the engineer really IS one. Only there for the photo op. When there's actual tracking/mixing being done, all those buzzing, resonating goodies better be in a different room - just a thought... Steve

Okay...one more boo-boo to consider, since I was hoping to display 12 of my guitars. A lot of helmholtz resonating going on I guess?

Thanks for the info Steve.

 

[barefoot]

As the speaker business has taken off I've had the opportunity to visit some insane studios with unbelievable collections of rare guitars and basses. They are always out of their cases, either hanging from the headstocks or lined up in rack/stands supported from the body and neck - just like you see in guitar shops. The only exception I saw was a 1958 Les Paul with an incredibly deep cherry sunburst over perfectly flamed maple. It looked like a Hawaiian sunset reflecting off a calm sea - amazing. Apparently it's always been a studio guitar, kept in the case and away from the sun going on 50 years.

 

[true-eurt]

The only exception I saw was a 1958 Les Paul with an incredibly deep cherry sunburst over perfectly flamed maple. It looked like a Hawaiian sunset reflecting off a calm sea - amazing.

THAT I would love to see....oh my.

 

[bassslinger]

Humidity

I've had my Les Paul for about 14 years and the only thing on there that is really even rusted/corroded is the tiny little screws in the back plates and the ones holding the pickups in...a lot of that metal is "made in China" and die cast or something,,,,,,,,,,I wouldn't leave it out in the rain, but in the garage in the case I don't think you will have any issues.

 

[Anfontan]

Just for my addition True, if you have saw pictures of my hanger system before, I usually have 6 to 8 guitars either hanging or on stands in my studio room.
During winter months the tuning will tend to go sharp on the hangers, really not on the stands though. My main problem with so many out-is which one to use on the song I'm working on.

 

[Supercreep]

Great thread.


Hi True.

 

[EddieRay]

I like my guitars naked and lying around, always ready for action baby!