Lead guitar tone, pt. 2

[WhiteStrat]

Thanks for all the input over in the original thread. Finally finished taking it to the next level. Same rhythm and chord progression, but expanded a bit so everything is retracked. The track has some holes so there are chances to hear different parts more clearly: clean guitars, heavy rhythm guitars, etc.

I know the lead part is gonna be too "80's" or too wet for some, but when I talked about finding a tone that pushed me to play like I play, this is what I was talking about.

The drums are real recorded loops, and everything else I recorded today--all with amps and mics. No sims. No modeling. That's rare--maybe a first--for me. An interesting side note: nothing is EQ'd. Not that it couldn't stand a little here or there, but I found with all this concerted effort towards mic placement, things fell together. So no EQ on any of the tracks. Mixed it, cranked it--and here it is:

 

[WhiteStrat]

Oh yeah...in the other thread someone asked about a backing track version so they could jam along. I dropped all my leads out of this "expanded" test. Without my delay soaked, 80's wailing, you can certainly hear the warts in my rhythm & bass parts, but hey--it's just a test right?

Here you go. Have fun:

 

[ocnor]

Great tone and playing! There is no such thing as being too 80's. Your clean tones are especially nice.

 

[joeym]

Love that lead sound, Bob, it sounds nice and warm. Could you maybe upload a photo of your mic placement on the amp?

Joe

 

[true-eurt]

Rather than go into a long groupie adoration mode, I'll just say...

And I'm with Joey on the mic placement pic.

 

[WhiteStrat]

Thanks guys & gals! (That's sunburn--not blushing on my bald head.) I should be able post a pic tonight...

 

[Greg_L]

Lol. That's a wankfest deluxe!

Sounds good. I'm not crazy about some of those tones, but if you like em, rock on bro!

 

[WhiteStrat]

Wankfest deluxe! There's the name of my next album.

 

[philbagg]

Sounds fantastic!

I think the rhythm tone could be a little bigger. And there's some weird stereo image going on with the drums

The lead tone is sweeeeeeet though

 

[WhiteStrat]

Sounds fantastic!

I think the rhythm tone could be a little bigger. And there's some weird stereo image going on with the drums

The lead tone is sweeeeeeet though

Thanks man! The drums aren't mine--so I'm off the hook on that one! They're real drums, but they're chopped up loops from some studio session.

You're right on the rhythm--I was so focused on nailing the lead tone, that when I got there--I listened and thought "Wow...those rhytm guitars are weak."

 

[philbagg]

Thanks man! The drums aren't mine--so I'm off the hook on that one! They're real drums, but they're chopped up loops from some studio session.

You're right on the rhythm--I was so focused on nailing the lead tone, that when I got there--I listened and thought "Wow...those rhytm guitars are weak."

It's really strange. I'm listening on headphones, but it sounds like the left and right side of the drums are out of phase

 

[guitar zero]

It's really strange. I'm listening on headphones, but it sounds like the left and right side of the drums are out of phase

Were there drums in this?

 

[philbagg]

Were there drums in this?

It's the first thing you hear in the track

 

[WhiteStrat]

were there drums in this?

I think so...

 

[guitar zero]

It's the first thing you hear in the track

I think so...

Tongue removed from cheek. The guitars were so good, who notices things like drums?

 

[WhiteStrat]

Tongue removed from cheek. The guitars were so good, who notices things like drums?

I smelled what you were cooking the first time around.

 

[philbagg]

I misread as: "Where were the drums in this?"

I woulda copped it, I swear!!

 

[DrewPeterson7]

WhiteStrat - the lead is way better on this, and I kind of dug it last time around. The playing's better, too - I think the tone inspired you a bit more.

What'd you end up doing for mic placement and mix between the mics? Also, how much do those Royer knockoffs go for? A matched pair might not be a bad thing to have around.

Oh, and that clean section is awesome.

 

[philbagg]

oh, and that clean section is awesome.

+1000000000

 

[WhiteStrat]

WhiteStrat - the lead is way better on this, and I kind of dug it last time around. The playing's better, too - I think the tone inspired you a bit more.

What'd you end up doing for mic placement and mix between the mics? Also, how much do those Royer knockoffs go for? A matched pair might not be a bad thing to have around.

Oh, and that clean section is awesome.

Thanks Drew! I appreciate the hell out of that! Yeah, the playing is better this time around--and that's exactly what I was looking for. I know that different tones push me in a different direction (e.g., I don't play like this on my Tele through my Blues Jr.!), but I really needed to get the tone to where I played my major scale/speed stuff up to at least my own standards. That's like home base for me--after that I'll play around with other tones.

The mics? Ah...still not as simple as I'd like. It's still 3 mics--but I'm not complaining--I've been taking inventory, and I can afford to get these mics positioned and just leave 'em there, ready to record at any time.

It's a condenser, a ribbon and a dynamic. The left side of the mix is a Kel HM2D condenser--killer mic. They market it as roots--or thick and meaty. And I gotta tell ya, it doesn't have any of that high end junk that make most cheap condensers bad choices for high gain amps. But it does have all the articulation you'd expect out of a condenser. Second is a ribbon--it's in the middle of the mix--darker and smoother, makes a good anchor. The third one (right side of the mix) is an old MD421 I picked up on ebay. I know these are pricey, but honestly, I got the same sound out of an i5 or a 57. (Yeah, I know they're different, but in this case it's just one of three mics--so it makes sense that most any decent dynamic would add the same character to the mix.)

The left and right are panned hard, with the ribbon dead center. The ribbon is about 2/3 to 3/4 the volume of the other two. Also, the air from the amp was flopping the ribbon a bit--making it "fart" on low notes, so I pulled it back a couple inches from the amp compared to the other 2.

I tried it with just one--the Kel HM2D came closest to being what I wanted with just one mic. But I'm a nut for texture & a bit of complexity in a lead tone. So I added a second. With the Kel and the 421, it was balanced enough, but two bright. If I tried either of those two with the ribbon, and panned 'em hard, one side was too dark, the other too bright. That's TOO MUCH texture! Didn't sound natural.

So I went back to three. Darkest in the middle, brighter & brightest on the sides.

Pic to follow...