Keeping the noise level down

  • Thread starter Thread starter Armistice
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Armistice

Armistice

Son of Yoda
It seems no matter what form of recording I do (acoustic guitar via pickup, acoustic guitar via mic, electric guitar via FX into recorder, electric guitar via miked amp etc etc) I always end up with a fair degree of white noise, which, as I play music with a fair dynamic range, really appears in the quieter passages.

I won't list all the gear I'm using, but it's all pro stuff in the instrument line and prosumer in the recorder line, I'm just having the hardest time, once I've got a whole heap of tracks together, in keeping the white noise level under control.

I'm aware that I need to get the incoming signal as hot as possible, and do - are there any general tips that you guys recommend for dealing with this issue? I'm using an AW4416 recorder with onboard dynamics and I've played with the expander on it, but my long crashing chords tend to be gated a little early when putting the threshold down at a useful level and "throb" a bit at lower volumes on the way down, which isn't pleasant.

Everytime I add a device to the signal chain it adds more noise to the overall equation. It's driving me nuts, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Any tips on reducing this greatfully accepted

Cheers

David
 
Armistice said:
Everytime I add a device to the signal chain it adds more noise to the overall equation. It's driving me nuts, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Click to expand...

That pretty much sums it up. Less is more when it comes to preserving the signal quality. What is your signal path exactly?
 
Tex - it varies - one example that comes to mind is when recording bass - I always go direct as I don't have a bass amp - now I can go into the AW4416 and use its pres and it's not too bad, or I can go into a Mindprint Envoice pre (which lots on this site regard as an OK device) using a bit of tube to mellow it out and it's a bit more noisy, or I can try to use the Mindprint Envoice's onboard compressor to kill the peaks and it gets really noisy.

It ends up being quieter using the compressor on the AW, but I don't like the sound as much.

I guess the other issue is when using mikes, the self noise seems high - I try a HP filter to get the rumble out, but I still end up with a fair bit of hiss - I can EQ it out at the top end, but I lose the high frequencies of whatever it is I'm recording at the same time.

Can't help feeling I'm missing something somewhere!

Cheers

David
 
When I have the mixer full of playback tracks and outboard effects, the noise can creep up just enough to where it's noticeable on loud playback. When I start muting things, the worst offenders are usually the pcm-80 and 90, so setting optimum levels on effects seems important. (They are 'only' 16 bit, but I doubt the noise is -96) Other offenders would be guitar amp tracks. Otherwise, with good levels, things should be rather quiet.
Your having trouble with mic noise?
Wayne
 
When using mics, turn off your A/C ( amazing how loud that wind noise is, especially with a condenser mic ) and get as far from the recorder as possible ( fan/hard drive noise). Point mics away from the recorder. Always used balanced input lines. Don't crank preamps too high, 'specially cheap ones. Get a Behringer Denoiser or something like it. For fairly loud sources ( playing loud not electrical noise loud ) like rhythm electric or acoustic guitar or keyboard it works wonders. Set it right and your signal is dead QUIET. Marvelous box.

My 2 cents. I have fought the noise battle also and am beginning to overcome it.
 
steve 2 questions:
1) does the denoiser destroy any of your signal.
2) do you have success connecting balanced cables to an unbalanced source (ie... guitar, sound module, drum machine).

things i would do are:

make your signal path as minimal as possible. i normally don't even use a limiter in the signal path. i make exceptions (when necessary) to this rule when i'm recording for people who have absolutely do dynamic control whatsoever.

get away from your PC monitor when recording... i usually turn mine off when i'm self-tracking.

if you have a light with a dimmer switch that is trouble. i replaced the dimmer with a flick switch.

also, those tall lamps with the halogen bulbs seem to be trouble as well.

GET GOOD CABLES and avoid long instrument/mic cables like the plague... especially long unbalanced instrument cables. the longest instrument cable i use is 10 feet.
 
StevenLindsey said:
Don't crank preamps too high, 'specially cheap ones. Get a Behringer Denoiser or something like it. For fairly loud sources ( playing loud not electrical noise loud ) like rhythm electric or acoustic guitar or keyboard it works wonders. Set it right and your signal is dead QUIET. Marvelous box.
Click to expand...

You shouldn't have to resort to a magic box to get clean tracks.

Armistice- Your equipment should give you a very clean signal.
Are you sure you are setting up your gain stages properly? You should be able to get a pretty decent signal even out of the AW preamps. Are you using the proper cables or are you using adapters and splitters when you go from the Mindprint?

What mics are you using? Dynamic mics usually have a bit of hiss on any soft sources. Are you using an XLR cable for your mics?

The good news is you shouldn't have to buy anything new (except maybe mics) we just need to figure out what your doing wrong.
 
Thanks Tex - I'm using balanced cables for the mikes, condensors (Rode) and short cables for everything else. I didn't think another box was the answer - I've had another listen and realised that some of the noise is actually being caused by the monitor system, which is an old, but good, hi-fi, (one day, one day!) - so it's not actually on the recording itself, and perhaps the situation is not as bad as I thought - I'll try a different system and see what happens.

So, anyway, I'll take more care with set ups etc as well as the various bits of advice gleaned from this post and see how I go - the main area of contention is miking the acoustic guitar.

Thanks for the help and ideas all.

Cheers

David
 
steve 2 questions:
1) does the denoiser destroy any of your signal.
2) do you have success connecting balanced cables to an unbalanced source (ie... guitar, sound module, drum machine).

1. The Denoiser will take a little bit off the top end - easily compensated for. I use an exciter and a little eq to put it back in. As long as the signal is above the noise floor, you can't tell the difference. If you are recording something very quiet ( finger-picked guitar....) it will cut off some of the note and make it plunky. Of course, it isn't for everything, but nothing is. For certain sources, it is invaluable. I know some of the Purists here insist that you shouldn't need such things, but I am not a Purist. I am a person who does HOME recording ( not PRO-STUDIO ) recording with in most cases less-than-optimal equipment, as, I would imagine, many or most here are doing. I sometimes like to hear what the <Home> recorders are doing with their Home recording equipment as opposed to what Pro Studio recorders have and are doing. I think some are afraid to post here because of the fear of being belittled by the upper-class who can afford first rate equipment and who, in some cases, do it for a living. ( This is <homerecording>.com. ) I have seen several Pro studios who have the Denoiser in their arsenal, along with their high-end gear. It is very useful in certain situations and it does exactly what the maker says it will. It works. I record with a "66 Fender Mustang, an old Peavey bass, an old Ensoniq synth, etc. Believe me, some of my stuff needs all the help it can get. I have learned a lot from the Purists here and am grateful and will continue to listen. But not everything is ideal and many of us are lower-level <Home> recordists. Use what works for you. Some folks don't think you should drink wine costing less than $100 a bottle. The majority ain't going for that either.

2. I don't use TRS cables with unbalanced stuff. I just use regular instrument cables to go to the preamp and then TRS or XLR from the the preamp to the balanced recorder inputs. One of my first revelations when I started playing with this stuff was the marvelous difference that using balanced equipment and cables makes.
 
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