Just a heads up to anyone who is looking into the UAD stuff...

[chewbacaface]

I am always looking for ways to make my recordings sound warmer, fatter, punchier, better. I have a few different ways that I do this...

First, I track to tape, either a Tascam 238 or a Fostex R8. The R8 isn't the world's best reel to reel but mine is absolutely mint and works well. The 238, however, is my preferred device because even though it is a cassette, it has a special sound to it (for drums) that I just haven't been able to get on the reel to reel. In some ways, the R8 is just harder to push.

Anyway, on to the point of this post. I did a lot of searching for good analog/tape modeling plugins because if all things were even, I would much rather mix on a computer. It's faster in every possible way. So, I have been searching and searching for good tape emulation plugins and they were all crap. Until now. I got a UAD-2 duo and the Studer A800 plug as well as the Fatso jr. plug. The combination of these plugs with my tape recordings is actually sort of stunning. The Studer plug is warm and really versatile and very realistic sounding. The Fatso plug is big and thick and punchy and perfect for snare tracks. Plus, you get their LA2A, 1176 LN and SE, and a Pultec EQ with the card. The Pultec is worth the price alone. I'm not ready to give up my tape machines just yet because I love the natural distortion I get on the hi-hat/cymbals from the 238 but I definitely am impressed by how these plugins sound.

For anyone who loves tape and has been considering these as a supplement to your tape/analog machines, I would highly recommend these. They are hands down the best digital software/hardware I have ever used. It has completely changed my opinion on mixing with analog and digital tracks in the same song. I used to think I had to record everything analog and then transfer to digital. I will now likely only be doing the drums on tape and will be using these plugs for the other instruments. They are expensive but you get what you pay for.

Just my .02. I know a lot of folks will probably jump on this and bash it because this is a analog forum but really I am an analog fiend and I'm just trying to pass on my experience for those folks who work in both mediums and are searching for ways to make life easier.

Ryan

 

[Beck]

I'm not going to jump on this and bash it because this is an analog forum but rather that these plugs are not tape, don't sound like tape. I've tried them all and I'll continue to audition new technology when it makes real strides. I'm more outraged by the shameless way these companies push this useless crap on unsuspecting users. Criminal is the word that comes to mind when I read the blurbs and then look into the nuts and bolts of the plug, and then finally put it though its paces to find yet another useless overpriced lie in a pretty wrapper. UAD is the chief offender among them, whoring out a trusted name to pick people’s pockets. They might as well be selling snake oil and claiming a digital cure for cancer. What f-ing sell-outs. There is no honor in this industry anymore. That’s the lesson here. I won't buy anything from UAD ever again, software or hardware. Never! They have no credibility anymore whatsoever!

People: Don't fall for this! It's total BS.

 

[briank]

I mean, if you're using and benefiting from those plugs then more power to ya, but count me out.

The beef I had with UAD was really when the "Studer" plug in particular came out, they had a demo that was supposed to be a/b'ing between the plug on a mix buss vs. not, but it was obvious that they were juicing up the plugin by several db's in a bid to fool the listener with the old "louder sounds better" trick, and I thought that was such a dirty, unprofessional, underhanded used-car salesman quality tactic that I didn't even care whether the plug sounded any good or not.

I haven't heard the Fatso Jr. plugin but I have a real one at my disposal that I use in my analog mix rig and I like it a lot for parallel compression; in particular drum busses or drums and bass. Even if it were possible for the plug to sound close to the real deal, I don't see how it could handle like one, and that would be an important distinction in my book. I really like Empirical Labs compression--I especially love my Ditressors and use them on probably just about every session--but I'm dismayed to see their stuff turning up in plug-in form.

Personally I'd never in a million years prefer to mix in a DAW than with an analog rig and I don't find it faster in every way either. I mix ProTools projects on a console with outboard pretty much the same as if I'm rolling tape.

 

[Chilljam]

I'm not going to jump on this and bash it because this is an analog forum but rather that these plugs are not tape, don't sound like tape. I've tried them all and I'll continue to audition new technology when it makes real strides. I'm more outraged by the shameless way these companies push this useless crap on unsuspecting users. Criminal is the word that comes to mind when I read the blurbs and then look into the nuts and bolts of the plug, and then finally put it though its paces to find yet another useless overpriced lie in a pretty wrapper. UAD is the chief offender among them, whoring out a trusted name to pick people’s pockets. They might as well be selling snake oil and claiming a digital cure for cancer. What f-ing sell-outs. There is no honor in this industry anymore. That’s the lesson here. I won't buy anything from UAD ever again, software or hardware. Never! They have no credibility anymore whatsoever!

People: Don't fall for this! It's total BS.

Thought you said you weren't going to bash it?

Look, if you have used it and you genuinely think those plugins sound 'stunning' then more power to you is really all that can be said. Nothing wrong with your post if you are just simply stating your experience with the products.

The only thing I am confused about is that you are recommending to use it as a supplement to your tape machines... whats the benefit of using a plugin to try (IMO) emulate a tape sound when you have already recorded to tape and (presumably) have a tape sound?

 

[Beck]

Thought you said you weren't going to bash it?

Look, if you have used it and you genuinely think those plugins sound 'stunning' then more power to you is really all that can be said. Nothing wrong with your post if you are just simply stating your experience with the products.

The only thing I am confused about is that you are recommending to use it as a supplement to your tape machines... whats the benefit of using a plugin to try (IMO) emulate a tape sound when you have already recorded to tape and (presumably) have a tape sound?

Chilljam,

Not sure if you're replying to just my post or the topic in general and the OP, but just to clarify what I meant was I won't bash the plug simply because this is an analog oriented forum, but I will bash them because they suck!

The rest I assume you're talking to the OP because I wouldn't use the UAD plugs under any circumstances.

The other thing I forgot to comment on concerning the OP's remarks is that for me analog tape is quite easy to work with and even a good plug, if one existed, would not be more convenient using a computer and a mouse. A DAW is a necessary evil in my studio. There is nothing intuitive or convenient about working with audio on a PC.

 

[leddy]

I only have the UAD1 so I can't demo the tape sims yet. I went crazy with them for a while. Through the years, I think my ears improved. The only UAD plugs that I still use are the plate reverb and the precision buss comp. Any of the "color" plugs that emulate transformer characteristics (Pultec, Neve, etc.) don't sound good to me at all anymore. So I'm in no hurry to jump on another UAD bandwagon.

 

[Mo Facta]

Time for a little controversy.

I use UAD plugins on every record and they always sound good to me. They are the most usable of the emu lot, IMO.

And I just want to say something.

A couple of you guys are totally giving of a luddite vibe, clinging to your precious analog and calls for honor. Come on. Honor left the scene as soon as we could add artificial reverb or manipulate dynamics and now here we are in the age of Autotune. I could care less what UAD does to market or sell its products because at the end of the day, they're going to catch the punters they're fishing for and that lot will never know the difference any way. If you're a real discerning pro you won't buy into the hype and you'll simply use what works for you. If the UAD plugs don't work for you, fine. But that doesn't mean they're crap. It just means you have a big opinion.

Let's not forget that many, many hit records have used UAD plugins. Many top mix engineers admit to using them. They just WORK.

I'm going to go ahead and say "don't buy into the luddite claims". As always, it's not the tools, but how they are applied.

Cheers

 

[famous beagle]

Honor left the scene as soon as we could add artificial reverb or manipulate dynamics.

Let's not forget that many, many hit records have used UAD plugins. Many top mix engineers admit to using them.

As always, it's not the tools, but how they are applied.

Well said. They're not for me, but they're not "crap" either. If someone likes using them, more power to them.

Many now "legitimate," desirable instruments started out as a pale imitation of some other "real" instrument. See the Fender Rhodes and the Mellotron as examples. Heck, the old Fender guitar amps of the 50s that are so prized nowadays for their glorious break-up were designed to be clean amps. They were never designed to distort that way!

Any instrument is just that: an instrument. It's the end result (the music) that matters. Everything else is just preference, in my opinion. I prefer analog, but some prefer digital.

 

[Melchizedek666]

Hey... how good does the UAD-1 sound? I have been looking into buying one, since I am still using Cubase in OS 9, and the thing is really cheap on EBAY!

 

[leddy]

Time for a little controversy.

I use UAD plugins on every record and they always sound good to me. They are the most usable of the emu lot, IMO.

And I just want to say something.

A couple of you guys are totally giving of a luddite vibe, clinging to your precious analog and calls for honor. Come on. Honor left the scene as soon as we could add artificial reverb or manipulate dynamics and now here we are in the age of Autotune. I could care less what UAD does to market or sell its products because at the end of the day, they're going to catch the punters they're fishing for and that lot will never know the difference any way. If you're a real discerning pro you won't buy into the hype and you'll simply use what works for you. If the UAD plugs don't work for you, fine. But that doesn't mean they're crap. It just means you have a big opinion.

Let's not forget that many, many hit records have used UAD plugins. Many top mix engineers admit to using them. They just WORK.

I'm going to go ahead and say "don't buy into the luddite claims". As always, it's not the tools, but how they are applied.

Cheers

Well, a lot of strong opinion on both sides. In a purely objective sense, I can say what I don't like about some of the UAD stuff. Most of the "color" plugs add generous amounts of odd-order harmonics. Engage the Pultec on a 1khz tone and see what happens on an FFT. It sounds very abrasive to me. If it were hardware doing that, I'd feel the same. Never used a real Pultec, so I don't know. I hear sounds through my tube/tranny hardware and it sounds creamy and warm.

I'd love to see what happens to a 1khz sine wave through the Studer plug at different levels. I'd like to see pink noise as well. I want to know what the plug is doing.

 

[mixsit]

Hey... how good does the UAD-1 sound? I have been looking into buying one, since I am still using Cubase in OS 9, and the thing is really cheap on EBAY!

UAD-1's are going to be dirt cheap 'cause UA is moving to a rev for future plugs that will not allow the UAD-1. (All the stuff that used to run on '1 still will, but not with/next to UAD-2's in the same system.
Do some google, what have you.

 

[chewbacaface]

Thought you said you weren't going to bash it?

Look, if you have used it and you genuinely think those plugins sound 'stunning' then more power to you is really all that can be said. Nothing wrong with your post if you are just simply stating your experience with the products.

The only thing I am confused about is that you are recommending to use it as a supplement to your tape machines... whats the benefit of using a plugin to try (IMO) emulate a tape sound when you have already recorded to tape and (presumably) have a tape sound?

You guys are way too funny and serious about this. All tools have some value. Yes, these do sound like tape more so than any other plugin I've used. Yes, I have recorded plenty to tape. Yes, I have owned lots of tape machines (4 currently) and used lots that I didn't own. Yes, I would rather get that sound from pushing a button if possible. Why? Because using tape machines is a complete bitch. We all know it. We can admit to it on different levels if you want, but in the end, if you could do the same thing digitally, you would. I'm not some purist. I don't have time for that. I don't make my own lures when I fish either.

The last thing I mastered was done for a group of "audiophiles" who "needed" an analog master. I told them it was a tape. It was the Ampex plugin. 456 - 15ips - 1/4" tape - wow turned up about 25% - delay offset slightly at 8%... "This sounds beautiful", "It's so warm", "etc..."

They work if you know how and when to use them. I would bet I could trick some people on here. At then end of the day, I love tape. I've used tape and I've used the plugins and I like them both a lot. I see myself using the plugins more in the future because they are quick and easy and honestly more flexible than the tape machines they mimic. That said, I just got back into the analog world after about a decade because I couldn't get used to the sounds of purely digital records. I'll ask you this. Have you ever really tried these plugins and given them a run on actual recordings. They aren't cheap, so, I have a hard time listening to people bash them knowing that it is unlikely that they've given them a fair run for their money. I doubt anyone on here is dropping 3000$ on UAD hardware and plugins with the predisposition that they are going to hate them. That's all I'm saying... I doubt you really tried them and I doubt you ever will. There is no reason though to lob out unfounded insults about them. I don't work for UA and I wish their shit wasn't so ungodly expensive, but it is, and I still buy it because it's good.

 

[chewbacaface]

I mean, if you're using and benefiting from those plugs then more power to ya, but count me out.

The beef I had with UAD was really when the "Studer" plug in particular came out, they had a demo that was supposed to be a/b'ing between the plug on a mix buss vs. not, but it was obvious that they were juicing up the plugin by several db's in a bid to fool the listener with the old "louder sounds better" trick, and I thought that was such a dirty, unprofessional, underhanded used-car salesman quality tactic that I didn't even care whether the plug sounded any good or not.

I haven't heard the Fatso Jr. plugin but I have a real one at my disposal that I use in my analog mix rig and I like it a lot for parallel compression; in particular drum busses or drums and bass. Even if it were possible for the plug to sound close to the real deal, I don't see how it could handle like one, and that would be an important distinction in my book. I really like Empirical Labs compression--I especially love my Ditressors and use them on probably just about every session--but I'm dismayed to see their stuff turning up in plug-in form.

Personally I'd never in a million years prefer to mix in a DAW than with an analog rig and I don't find it faster in every way either. I mix ProTools projects on a console with outboard pretty much the same as if I'm rolling tape.

See, I'm good with all that. I totally noticed the gain pumping in their Studer demo as well. The Ampex demo is better because they a/b a song with no increase in gain and you get a better idea. I like the Studer plugin but I like the Ampex one much more. I have the Fatso and the Fatso Sr. part is what makes it worthwhile. They don't have a hardware version of that and I think the software version of the Fatso Jr. is almost exact in how it reacts. That said, I'd like to have the knobs if I could but the price difference is monumental. Plus, I'm much faster at mixing in the box. But, I understand wanting a console and hardware because I fought off DAW mixing for a long time. There are also plugins I have that I don't like, like the Massive Passive. I'm not sure if I'd like the hardware either since I've never used it. I'm also not a fan of the SPL Transient Designer. It's just an odd plug with little to no use. The plugs I have and like are... Studer, Ampex, Roland Dimension D and RE201, Pultec Pro, LA2A, 1176, Precission Buss Compressor, Neve 88RS, Little Labs ibp and VOG. I have demoed a few others I want like the Plate Reverb, the LA3A, and the SSL G Compressor but it'll be a bit.

The thing is this. If you like working with the hardware, awesome. I do too a lot of the time. But, anyone who owns the hardware version will immediately say that the plugin sucks and doesn't sound anything like it because they'd hate to think they paid all that money for something being emulated at a fraction of the cost. We all know that technology moves forward exponentially. At some point (maybe now is that point) they will emulate things to the degree where the results will be indistinguishable. That's just how it goes.

 

[chewbacaface]

Thought you said you weren't going to bash it?

Look, if you have used it and you genuinely think those plugins sound 'stunning' then more power to you is really all that can be said. Nothing wrong with your post if you are just simply stating your experience with the products.

The only thing I am confused about is that you are recommending to use it as a supplement to your tape machines... whats the benefit of using a plugin to try (IMO) emulate a tape sound when you have already recorded to tape and (presumably) have a tape sound?

Oh, sorry, I think I missed your question in this. I use them to supplement other tracks. I usually record the drums and bass to tape and do everything else digital and then use the Studer and the Fatso to warm up guitar/key/vocal tracks before bussing it all to the Ampex. So, I don't use the plugins on tracks that were done originally on tape.

 

[James K]

Why? Because using tape machines is a complete bitch. We all know it. We can admit to it on different levels if you want, but in the end, if you could do the same thing digitally, you would.

That is simply not true.

 

[leddy]

I totally noticed the gain pumping in their Studer demo as well.

Just like their Pultec, Fairchild, and some others I'm sure.

The fact that they play that little loudness trick is insulting, and pisses me off to no end. You should always be able to AB a plug and know what it is doing in an objective way.

 

[chewbacaface]

That is simply not true.

C'mon man... If I told you that by clicking a button you could have the same thing that you have now and you'd never had to own a tape, demagnetize a head, replace a belt, replace a motor, find an out of stock part, etc... You would. Anyone would. Now, at some point I'd like to put up some a/b comparisons of my own and see who can pick out the true tape tracks from the digital tracks. It would be interesting if nothing else. I'm not trying to make people dislike their decks or anything. I like tape machines as much for their aesthetic as their sound, but still... a computer is much faster than an abacus. Simple as that.

 

[chewbacaface]

Just like their Pultec, Fairchild, and some others I'm sure.

The fact that they play that little loudness trick is insulting, and pisses me off to no end. You should always be able to AB a plug and know what it is doing in an objective way.

The differences in the Pultec are obvious with or without the gain. Just by turning the plugin on you get a little bump of air. I've not used the fairchild. I am fully on board with the deception caused by pumping the volume in their demos but that is something every plugin company does. Let's not call it insulting unless you're saying that you've been insulted by every plugin ever marketed to you. Also, on a fairchild you're going to hear a volume bump even if the gain is matched simply because it's a compressor. It's not that it is necessarily louder in db.

I'm not saying these are the plugins to end all plugins but I've used a lot of different stuff. I have the Waves bundle. I have the IKMultimedia bundle. I have the Abbey Road plugin bundle (which are great as well). I've spent some time playing with the Sony Oxford bundle. I have an older copy of the McDSP bundle (which was good). Of all of them, the UAD stuff is hands down the best, most musical sounding of the bunch. I still use the Abbey Road stuff a fair bit but I haven't touched any of the others in a few months.

 

[Beck]

Time for a little controversy.

I use UAD plugins on every record and they always sound good to me. They are the most usable of the emu lot, IMO.

And I just want to say something.

A couple of you guys are totally giving of a luddite vibe, clinging to your precious analog and calls for honor. Come on. Honor left the scene as soon as we could add artificial reverb or manipulate dynamics and now here we are in the age of Autotune. I could care less what UAD does to market or sell its products because at the end of the day, they're going to catch the punters they're fishing for and that lot will never know the difference any way. If you're a real discerning pro you won't buy into the hype and you'll simply use what works for you. If the UAD plugs don't work for you, fine. But that doesn't mean they're crap. It just means you have a big opinion.

Let's not forget that many, many hit records have used UAD plugins. Many top mix engineers admit to using them. They just WORK.

I'm going to go ahead and say "don't buy into the luddite claims". As always, it's not the tools, but how they are applied.

Cheers

Ok here’s the reality. One reason I auditioned the UAD offerings is because out of the handful of old pros that endorsed it one I know quite well. We converse on another forum and also privately through email. Probably everyone in the world of music knows who he is, so I’m not going to violate the confidence. After he endorsed this and some other plugs he confessed months later to me and lamented that he knows this crap doesn’t hold a candle to the real thing and the endorsement was entirely for financial gain from the agreement between he and UAD to say it sounds like the real thing.

Sadly in this shadow of a music industry we have today this is one of the most lucrative ways well-known old producers and engineers can cash in on the name recognition. They can no longer survive simply by doing what made them famous because this digital fairyland everyone has bought into has made their jobs largely obsolete. I always respected him and I still do. Although he made an error in judgment he admits he did and feels bad for caving in. Word is last time I spoke with him he’s done with all that because he wants to sleep at night and be able to look himself in the mirror. But there’s a whole line of guys behind him looking for this easy paycheck. All they have to do is have some name recognition and say, “Oh yeah, it sounds just like the real thing… yeah baby!” It happens all the time.

And the majority of you dolts in this new music industry are falling for it. In fact there’s little you won’t fall for. Since I’ve been on HR now for nearly a decade I’ve watched some of you do it year after year and never learn. Hey, News Flash! You’re not part of some great march of progress. You’re patsies following one fad and then another, which are abandoned as quickly as they were adopted… overnight to make way for the next “big thing”… Amazing! Revolutionary! Bunch of dumb asses.

No one here has any fear of technology. We simply know shit from shinola. There’s plenty of analog shit out there too. I’ll tell you just as frankly what to avoid no matter what it is.

And really dude! Stop with the luddite braodbrushing! We’re all using computers here. LOL More importantly the luddite label applies much better to so many of those that only know digital. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve heard that, “Analog is too hard.” “It’s too scary.” “I could never figure it out.“

I’ve been recording for 33 years and I’ve been a computer network consultant for the last 12 years, building and maintaining PC’s and Windows and Linux networks. You’re not going to tell me anything I don’t already know about technology. You sure as hell aren’t going to tell me anything I don’t already know about analog or digital. I don’t know many people who have anything close to the total grasp of it all as I do. If you want to know something about recording and the technology, digital or analog, feel free to ask… I can give you the correct answer. Or you can just continue being wrong. It’s up to you.

And by the way, many, many hit records sound like ass, and they started sounding more and more like ass as digital became the dominant technology. Coincidence? Perhaps... or maybe not.

C'mon man... If I told you that by clicking a button you could have the same thing that you have now and you'd never had to own a tape, demagnetize a head, replace a belt, replace a motor, find an out of stock part, etc... You would. Anyone would. Now, at some point I'd like to put up some a/b comparisons of my own and see who can pick out the true tape tracks from the digital tracks. It would be interesting if nothing else. I'm not trying to make people dislike their decks or anything. I like tape machines as much for their aesthetic as their sound, but still... a computer is much faster than an abacus. Simple as that.

And chewbacaface, all you've really done from your first post is tell us you can't figure out analog. Well, that's what you've said to those of us who do know in backwards and forwards. All you've done is scratch the surface. You can't get a good drum sound on your R8? That's because you don't know how, not because it can't be done. So you run back to your DAW and think a plug is going to magically fix all that for you. It's quite obvious that what you know about analog and how to use it is only the tip of the iceberg. You shouldn’t be throwing in the towel and spending good money on plugins.

The problem is you haven’t come anywhere close to mastering your tools. Or maybe it’s not that at all, but is as I often suspected people like you and Mo Facta are guerilla marketers coming here trying to change people's minds for reasons other than the truth… or you’re gullible enough to take it, hook, line and sinker from one of the many guerilla marketers that prowl these forums. Whatever the case, the regular members of the Analog Forum are much more discerning than the rest of HR, so you’re wasting your time. This doesn’t even belong on an analog forum. It’s not analog. Take it to one of the other forums where you’ll get all kinds of kudos and high-fives.

 

[James K]

C'mon man... If I told you that by clicking a button you could have the same thing that you have now and you'd never had to own a tape, demagnetize a head, replace a belt, replace a motor, find an out of stock part, etc... You would. Anyone would. Now, at some point I'd like to put up some a/b comparisons of my own and see who can pick out the true tape tracks from the digital tracks. It would be interesting if nothing else. I'm not trying to make people dislike their decks or anything. I like tape machines as much for their aesthetic as their sound, but still... a computer is much faster than an abacus. Simple as that.

I don't know why you assume that. Clearly you would rather do that but that doesn't mean that everyone else would. I would much much rather work with tape recorders and other analogue equipment than just 'press a button'. I'm not lying or being a luddite, I genuinely prefer working in this way and I'm sure many people would agree with me. Many would agree with you too, it's a matter of preference. I don't find recording in analogue to be a 'labour of love' or anything like that. I just don't find working with it a problem whatsoever.


Also, an abacus is faster than an electronic calculator once mastered.