Jimmy Page's low-slung guitar position.

  • Thread starter Thread starter miroslav
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I don't disagree that drugs/alcohol where part of the "rock star" agenda back in the day...
...but those guys didn't change their playing style when they were straight, yet the "slop" was still there, and I seriously doubt they were stoned 100% of the time when they played and every time they played.
You can hear the same shit on their studio recordings...and why would they keep "sloppy" tracks if they could easily do them over.

Page still plays the same way and so does Young...and I don't think they're stoned too much these days when they play. :)

No...it's a certain approach to playing...it's not just drugs/alcohol.
 
miroslav said:
I don't disagree that drugs/alcohol where part of the "rock star" agenda back in the day...
...but those guys didn't change their playing style when they were straight, yet the "slop" was still there, and I seriously doubt they were stoned 100% of the time when they played and every time they played.
You can hear the same shit on their studio recordings...and why would they keep "sloppy" tracks if they could easily do them over.

Page still plays the same way and so does Young...and I don't think they're stoned too much these days when they play. :)

No...it's a certain approach to playing...it's not just drugs/alcohol.
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They were drinking and getting high in the studio too.
 
darrin_h2000 said:
John Bonam died after one of those sessions.
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That's what they want you to believe. He's working at a convenience store in Ann Arbor, Michigan. He works the day shift--tag teams with Elvis, who works the night shift. Look it up.
 
I don't care about slop if the musical ideas are there ..... that's more important to me. Lots of times even great players get sloppy when they're playing right on the edge ...... that's also often when they do their greatest stuff.

Perfect and sterile sucks.

And before anyone jumps on me I'm NOT saying that playing perfect is always sterile. But so often bands with great feel could be considered sloppy by someone who approaches music as a technical thing.
Look at Little Feet ..... they played in an almost second line feel a lot of the time and that always kinda slops around the beat.
Hell, I'm from close to New Orleans and a LOT of the really great players around there are pretty loose.
 
Lt. Bob said:
I don't care about slop if the musical ideas are there ..... that's more important to me. Lots of times even great players get sloppy when they're playing right on the edge ...... that's also often when they do their greatest stuff.

Perfect and sterile sucks.

And before anyone jumps on me I'm NOT saying that playing perfect is always sterile. But so often bands with great feel could be considered sloppy by someone who approaches music as a technical thing.
Look at Little Feet ..... they played in an almost second line feel a lot of the time and that always kinda slops around the beat.
Hell, I'm from close to New Orleans and a LOT of the really great players around there are pretty loose.
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Little Feet -- Great example! What a groove...
 
Lt. Bob said:
Lots of times even great players get sloppy when they're playing right on the edge ...... that's also often when they do their greatest stuff.
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Exactly the point. Those guys are playing beyond the technical execution.
This notion that all of them were/are just stoned all the time and that's the only reason they play sloppy...well, it sounds like something someone's mother would have said when we were younger.
Don't do drugs kids...it leads to sloppy guitar playing

:D


But so often bands with great feel could be considered sloppy by someone who approaches music as a technical thing.
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I'm certainly not one to get all excited about "machine precision" playing...
...yet it's still hard NOT to notice some of the clams the aforementioned guys have thrown out during some runs. :p
And the fact that my own playing will at times hang and fall off the edge of some technical cliff...makes me love these guys even more, as they provide much inspiration and demonstrate how unimportant machine precision can be.

Again...I am in awe if some of the real technical monsters...but 9-out-of-10 times the awe only lasts for a short while, and I don't really like listening to those guys play on endlessly.

Oh…and I heard that Presley and Bonham left the convenience store and were now doing a lounge act in Vegas under assumed names.
Word is…Bonzo is having a tough time adjusting to the small jazz kit and having to play with brushes. ;)
 
miroslav said:
I am in awe if some of the real technical monsters...but 9-out-of-10 times the awe only lasts for a short while, and I don't really like listening to those guys play on endlessly.
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completely agree with you. It really winds me up when guitarists argue that so and so is a crap player because they can't do blistering runs with pinpoint precision and there's a youtube video somewhere of them dropping their pick. These people tend to be the ones that re-wind guitar solos and would pay thousands to let Joe Satriani spit in their face. Get a life :rolleyes:
 
YorkshireTrippe said:
completely agree with you. It really winds me up when guitarists argue that so and so is a crap player because they can't do blistering runs with pinpoint precision and there's a youtube video somewhere of them dropping their pick. These people tend to be the ones that re-wind guitar solos and would pay thousands to let Joe Satriani spit in their face. Get a life :rolleyes:
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I think it all comes from an single mindedness that seems to overtake musicians. Only this kind of music is good and only if it's played this way and has to sound like this.

Close mindedness abounds in music. How many people do we know that say country sucks, or rock sucks, or metal sucks or anything except classical and jazz sucks?

The same applies to the old question of 'technique' players versus 'feel' players.

To me, a real musician can and will appreciate both and will also try to be able to do both.
I don't find them to be mutually exclusive.

But this modern thing of "Music has to be perfect" has little to do with music. It all came from the growing tendency to track every single note separately if necessary to achieve perfection. It's a pro-tools value.

All you have to do is go back before studio multi-tracking and punching in to the micro second became common and all the very greatest players of any genre made mistakes and you can hardly hear any recordings by any of them that are perfect.
That's because they were human beings which happens to include imperfection.

I play with a lot of really good players and on the occasions where we might have some special biggie show where we're doing a 90 minute set, we'll step it up and play pretty much faultless.
But in regular gigs .... we're all trying to stretch our boundaries and no matter how good you might be, there's a level where you're pushing your limits and it can get a little ragged when you're really on the edge.
No one cares if it's inspired playing.
 
I remember those guys broke up because Bon Scott Drowned in his own puke.
 
miroslav said:
Exactly the point. Those guys are playing beyond the technical execution.
This notion that all of them were/are just stoned all the time and that's the only reason they play sloppy...well, it sounds like something someone's mother would have said when we were younger.
Don't do drugs kids...it leads to sloppy guitar playing
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If you had actually attended rock concerts back in the 70's you would not even be discussing it. The amount of drugs available to everyone was staggering [literally]. I'm not questioning anyone's musical ability as Page is one of my favorite players, but if you get too high anything is "beyond the technical execution".
 
bull crap Oncor, I always played better stoned out of my mind:D
 
ocnor said:
If you had actually attended rock concerts back in the 70's you would not even be discussing it.
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I have NO idea what you are going on about??? :)
First off...I have a couple of years on you, so no need for any history lessons ;) but what does "attending concerts" have ANYTHING to do with it?

Yeah...I do remember everyone getting wasted at concerts...but you know, at many of those concerts, the artists still played just fine...they weren't falling-down-wasted and not able to play.
You keep missing the bigger point that's being made here because you are convinced that it's all about drugs and nothing more.... :rolleyes:

Some players just don't get too hung up about "hitting the notes" all perfectly every time...they're playing from a different mentality, and they play that way drunk OR sober. :D
 
antichef said:
When I was 16, I was playing a Les Paul slung down low - I got tendinitis so bad I'd be in fiery pain for days - sucked - then I moved up the guitar some and it all went away...
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This.

For me, it was when I was 20 or so, and I'd just bought a new guitar (an Ibanez RG520) with a really thin neck. Shortly after, I decided to sling my guitar down to a Page-approved level, because it looks badass, and then started binge-practicing a couple licks with some really serious stretches to them.

Inside of a month, my hands were in agony and I had to stop playing. I did some research after that on RSI, and one of the things they caution you to do if you have ANY hand problems is not sling your guitars so low (thicker necks are also easier on your hands than thin ones, too).

The good news was it really forced me to clean up my playing posture, and the better part of a decade later I can wear my guitar at a pretty "normal" height - not Page, but not prog-dork either - and play comfortably.

Anyway, my money says it was all looks for Page. We're talking about the guy who would track with tiny amps and Telecasters and then gig with Les Pauls and Marshall stacks - hell, he probably wore his guitar like Steve Howe in the studio. ;)
 
DrewPeterson7 said:
Anyway, my money says it was all looks for Page. We're talking about the guy who would track with tiny amps and Telecasters and then gig with Les Pauls and Marshall stacks - hell, he probably wore his guitar like Steve Howe in the studio. ;)
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I have to agree...though he STILL plays with it pretty darn low... :D …so I do think he's 1) become use to it and 2) may not be experiencing the wrist problems 'cuz he has longer arms and finger to compensate (but he has back issues). Though I still think that low-slung position contributes to some his "sloppiness" as you can’t move the hand/fingers as easily on some runs...and yeah, I'm sure back in the day drugs and alcohol were involved, ;) though I doubt he's all buzzed up these days when he plays...yet he still plays the same.

Mind you ...I'm not promoting drug/alcohol use...but I gotta say, drugs/alcohol didn't always lead to poor playing...unless you were like falling-down buzzed.
Quite frankly...back in the day, a nice buzz was creatively stimulating and it loosened you up for BETTER, not worse, playing....which is why I think so many musicians partake.
That's no to say you can't be creative or play well when you are straight.
 
miroslav said:
I have to agree...though he STILL plays with it pretty darn low... :D …so I do think he's 1) become use to it and 2) may not be experiencing the wrist problems 'cuz he has longer arms and finger to compensate (but he has back issues). Though I still think that low-slung position contributes to some his "sloppiness" as you can’t move the hand/fingers as easily on some runs...and yeah, I'm sure back in the day drugs and alcohol were involved, ;) though I doubt he's all buzzed up these days when he plays...yet he still plays the same.

Mind you ...I'm not promoting drug/alcohol use...but I gotta say, drugs/alcohol didn't always lead to poor playing...unless you were like falling-down buzzed.
Quite frankly...back in the day, a nice buzz was creatively stimulating and it loosened you up for BETTER, not worse, playing....which is why I think so many musicians partake.
That's no to say you can't be creative or play well when you are straight.
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Two comments - I think the neck angle also matters a lot, and the fact he plays at such a strong slant definitely gives him a more natural, more comfortable wrist angle (and also means the neck of the guitar isn't really all THAT low).

Also, I don't really gig these days, but back when I was in college I was playing this regular thursday night bar gig with this blues rock band, summers when I was home. I found that at 2-3 gin and tonics I hit a comfortable happy medium where I was a looser and more risk-tolerant player, but that my coordination still hadn't begun to fall off. Much more than that though and it began to impact my ability to play, from a technical standpoint, anyway.
 
miroslav said:
I have to agree...though he STILL plays with it pretty darn low... :D …so I do think he's 1) become use to it and 2) may not be experiencing the wrist problems 'cuz he has longer arms and finger to compensate (but he has back issues). Though I still think that low-slung position contributes to some his "sloppiness" as you can’t move the hand/fingers as easily on some runs...and yeah, I'm sure back in the day drugs and alcohol were involved, ;) though I doubt he's all buzzed up these days when he plays...yet he still plays the same.

Mind you ...I'm not promoting drug/alcohol use...but I gotta say, drugs/alcohol didn't always lead to poor playing...unless you were like falling-down buzzed.
Quite frankly...back in the day, a nice buzz was creatively stimulating and it loosened you up for BETTER, not worse, playing....which is why I think so many musicians partake.
That's no to say you can't be creative or play well when you are straight.
Click to expand...

I flat out play better with a slight buzz and I've proven it many times by having people hear me both ways. Most of them were pretty anti-herb but inevitably they'd go "Well shit, I hate to say it but you were better stoned."

As Drew and miroslav have said, we're talking buzzed and NOT falling down fucked up.
 
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