It's kind of personal now. "Pot Of Gold"

  • Thread starter Thread starter PoeticIntensity
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PoeticIntensity said:
My first mix had drums stomping all over everything.
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Then you went way too far the other way. Your drums are buried now.

Dude, listen to hard rock mixes from any band in any time period. Never are the drums buried. The snare is never inaudible.
 
I mentioned in in response to Greg's comment, but it deserves a bit of detail.

This recording represents a lot of new territory for me. I'm using a guitar on it that I've never recorded before. It's an Ibanez S570b. Sounds good, but seems much more metallic than my Les Paul. Gotta figure it out. I also recently acquired two OktavaMod'ed Apex 205's (been waiting FOREVER for these!!!). So, I used that and SM-57 on guitars and the two 205's as drum OHs. The drums sound drastically different with them. It's requiring me to mix quite a bit differently than I'm used to, but hey... It's a great learning tool.

Overall, I agree with the fizziness, but if I have to sacrifice character and angst for less fizz, I'll take the fizz. Gonna give it my best shot, though. I've also never been able to scream and have it sound even half-way convincing. My voice is suited to singing in church and the like. Having people say this "caught the emotion" is completely amazing to me. Means, I'm doing something right. Anyway... I'm gonna get back on this and see if I can get more meat without sacrificing emotion. We'll see what happens.

Anyway... Thank you all for the comments, and most of all. Huge thank you to Brad for the solo. This place seriously rocks - on many levels. :D:):D:drunk:
 
Greg_L said:
Then you went way too far the other way. Your drums are buried now.

Dude, listen to hard rock mixes from any band in any time period. Never are the drums buried. The snare is never inaudible.
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Argh... I was writing a rebuttal telling you that the drums are never "inaudible". During the writing, I was listening to this with earbuds... *sigh* You're right. Again. Odd that nobody else picked up on it, though. Heck, I was convinced the levels were good listening to it through my monitors, but through these buds, there are times when the snare is completely drowned out.

Ah well... I thoroughly enjoy playing / editing / mixing / mastering, so I don't have any qualms with going through it all again.... Just another excuse to get used to my new gear.
 
Lol. I'm always gonna shoot you straight, dude. Everyone's tastes are different, but dammit, I want to hear drums and I bet so do these other guys. Most ears/brains are trained to hear the transient and then fill in the rest on their own and call it good. You gotta go/get past that. And like I said, every hard rock recording from AC/DC to Zep has fully audible pounding drums. Your drums are buried. I bet i know what you did as I've done it too: You make the raw mix sound fine, and then in the process of squashing it, things like the guitars and vocals get loud and mash out the drums. It's an easy fix though. Just bring shit down until you think the drums are too loud. Then they're probably just right. :)
 
I listened to the butt kickin version. I guess the guitars were a little overdriven for my personal tastes. But you hear a lot of commercial stuff that's this distorted. I didn't mind it too much.

The vocals were swimming in effects. That's probably what you wanted. But when you get to the chorus they're really messy - a lot of unpleasant sounding distortion in them.

You must have turned up the drums in this mix because they sound forward enough to me. I liked the crack on the snare. I thought the drumming was real good.

I thought the bass had too much attack. It'd pop through every once in a while and sound like a burp.
 
TripleM said:
I listened to the butt kickin version. I guess the guitars were a little overdriven for my personal tastes. But you hear a lot of commercial stuff that's this distorted. I didn't mind it too much.

The vocals were swimming in effects. That's probably what you wanted. But when you get to the chorus they're really messy - a lot of unpleasant sounding distortion in them.

You must have turned up the drums in this mix because they sound forward enough to me. I liked the crack on the snare. I thought the drumming was real good.

I thought the bass had too much attack. It'd pop through every once in a while and sound like a burp.
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Thanks for the kudoneous comment, Triple! Good call on the bass. Compressed it more in the next mix with a shorter attack.
 
New mix up top and here. Added two more subdued guitar tracks with my trusty Les Paul, compressed the bass, EQ'ed the vocals (might have to re-do them completely to get rid of the excess fizz), and adjusted drum levels. Step in the right direction?
 
heatmiser said:
I really think that when you get that guitar sound going in conjunction with the distorted vocals, they sum together to create an excess of some upper mid frequencies that are a bit harsh
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I think this is very cool overall, but I'm definitely hearing some of the same thing that Pete mentioned above. I'm thinking it should be an easy fix, just a level adjustment, but not sure...

Other than that, wow...you are hitting your creative stride it seems, and this is cool and different and edgy. I really like it. I like how you take risks artistically and you aren't afraid to push the envelope.

Nice!

Dave
SoundClick artist: Dave DeWhitt - page with MP3 music downloads
 
Doh! I'm an idiot, Jason. I listened last night a couple of times and based my comments on one mix back. I'll take a listen to the new mix now and get back with some updated comments. Grain of salt, engage!

Best,

Dave
 
New mix is definitely better. Guitars sound way better. You got some donky notes in the intro, but that's okay. You'll fix that with practice. The bass gtr seems pretty boomy now which I didn't notice before. Really, I'm thinking your "mastering" process is killing your mix. For example, the snare again. It's definitely more there now, which is a good thing, but it sounds flattened and ringy. In my experience, that's *usually* compression/limiting squashing the snares attack to match everything else and bringing the body up. There's zero dynamics in the mix. The snare doesn't crack in it's own space, if you get my drift. It's just a two-dimensional snare sound that's living amongst the guitars. I really hate to say this, but listen to a modern professional mastering job - like the new Foo Fighters. It's loud, and everything is in your face, but it's still got seperation and space and the pieces have a life of their own. Even with it being mastered in line with modern trends, it still breathes. Now I'm not expecting you to rival professional mastering engineers. You don't have the equpiment, budget, or experience to do what they do. But that's all the more reason to not "master" your stuff so hard. I like loud and in-your-face mixes too, but you gotta reel it in a little. This thing is way hot. It's killing your mixes. Just my 2 cents, bro.
 
dewhitt said:
I think this is very cool overall, but I'm definitely hearing some of the same thing that Pete mentioned above. I'm thinking it should be an easy fix, just a level adjustment, but not sure...

Other than that, wow...you are hitting your creative stride it seems, and this is cool and different and edgy. I really like it. I like how you take risks artistically and you aren't afraid to push the envelope.

Nice!

Dave
SoundClick artist: Dave DeWhitt - page with MP3 music downloads
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Thanks, Dave! New mix coming in a few moments, too, so keep an eye out.
 
Greg_L said:
New mix is definitely better. Guitars sound way better. You got some donky notes in the intro, but that's okay. You'll fix that with practice. The bass gtr seems pretty boomy now which I didn't notice before. Really, I'm thinking your "mastering" process is killing your mix. For example, the snare again. It's definitely more there now, which is a good thing, but it sounds flattened and ringy. In my experience, that's *usually* compression/limiting squashing the snares attack to match everything else and bringing the body up. There's zero dynamics in the mix. The snare doesn't crack in it's own space, if you get my drift. It's just a two-dimensional snare sound that's living amongst the guitars. I really hate to say this, but listen to a modern professional mastering job - like the new Foo Fighters. It's loud, and everything is in your face, but it's still got seperation and space and the pieces have a life of their own. Even with it being mastered in line with modern trends, it still breathes. Now I'm not expecting you to rival professional mastering engineers. You don't have the equpiment, budget, or experience to do what they do. But that's all the more reason to not "master" your stuff so hard. I like loud and in-your-face mixes too, but you gotta reel it in a little. This thing is way hot. It's killing your mixes. Just my 2 cents, bro.
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Right on, dude. Appreciate your comments like crazy. Keep em' coming. While some people might see you as an egotistical audiophile, I see nothin' but a goldmine of helpful information. So, thank you tons, bro.

So here's the deal. I'm going nuts trying to figure out how to get this new sound "just right", all the while exploring 5 or 6 new musical areas at once. I feel like I'm trying to control a freight train, while strapping on 5 rockets and doing nothing but full throttle. Havin' a blast doing it, but doing a lot of things wrong in the process.

My snare sounds the way it does because I thought it sounded too "clean" when I mixed it originally. I put what's called a "Satan Maximizer" on it, and really liked the mess it created. After reading your comment, and listening to it a few times, you're exactly right about the flat sound. As far as the mastering goes, I don't think that's it, because it's actually a lot less smashed than what I usually do (compared levels with "Back to 337" I did a long time ago, and this isn't as loud).

Anyway... Here's a new mix with the Maximizer thrown away, normal snare put back in with a slight bump in the EQ around 400 HZ. I still think it sounds too "clean", but with the better guitars now, it certainly sounds more balanced than it did before.

Mix 4 here and up top.

Oh... and I hate the bass on this. It is horribly inconsistent. I will be re-doing it when I have time.
 
Lol. Thanks, I think. :D

I know my delivery can grate some people, but dammit, I'm just being honest by what I hear. I never said my opinions are law. People can do whatever they want with what I say. I'm not gonna lie or give false praise. I know that with you I can just say what I'm hearing and you won't get bent out of shape about it.

Anyway, mix 4 is better yet. The snare is getting it's own life now. It could still be cleaner to my ears, but now we're getting into personal taste territory. I don't know that the 400hz bump is necessary though. It's a 13" right? Try it with a cut in that range.
 
Greg_L said:
Anyway, mix 4 is better yet. The snare is getting it's own life now. It could still be cleaner to my ears, but now we're getting into personal taste territory. I don't know that the 400hz bump is necessary though. It's a 13" right? Try it with a cut in that range.
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Cool. Yeah, the snare is a 14" steel. Unless it's hampering the mix, I usually bump the 450HZ area to give it more body. It usually makes it hit harder. I'll revisit it after work tonight.

Thanks again, Greg.
 
PoeticIntensity said:
Cool. Yeah, the snare is a 14" steel. Unless it's hampering the mix, I usually bump the 450HZ area to give it more body. It usually makes it hit harder. I'll revisit it after work tonight.

Thanks again, Greg.
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For me, I find that 450hz is a terrible spot for just about every drum I've ever recorded. I damn near always cut my own stuff there just out of habit and I'm rarely wrong about it. Most dedicated kick mics come from the factory with that frequency already scooped out. I hate that frequency. 300-500 is sucky. :D
 
I listened to the first mix, then the last one...its funny how Im only worth my mixing salt in my own genre..that sounds a night and day difference...the guitars are way better and the drums rock...really drive it, especially at the end when you're doing the human kazoo bit...boom boom boom...excellent

snare sounds great to me too now

good work...both of you lol
 
Ok, I think I missed mixes 2&3, but 4 does sound better than 1. The guitar drive is much more reasonable at this point and with less fizz, I find myself wishing they were louder now.

I thought the drums sounded pretty good the first time around, but they are certainly more prominent now. Bass sounds cool. Good job tweaking this.
 
Dude, I like the hell out of this song. I will say that I was going to comment a few days ago, but I am glad I didn't because I would have said it sounds good as is. The fizz guitars didn't bother me that much really, but I like the sound here on the Mix 3 way damned better.

I like the vocals on this. It kind of reminds me of a mix between Smashing Pumpkins and Korn. You are great at this stuff dude. :)
 
trumpino1 said:
I like the vocals on this. It kind of reminds me of a mix between Smashing Pumpkins and Korn. You are great at this stuff dude. :)
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See, to me...I'm picking up more of a System Of A Down vibe from the vocals.

Just stopping by to say it's getting better with every mix. The only thing that's bugging me now is near the beginning of the song on the vocal...the first time you go up, it really sounds more like vocal distortion than effect. Does it a couple of times after that too, but I think it clears up later in the song. I don't know if there's anything you can do about it, and I'm sorry I don't have a time marker, but I just thought I'd mention it.
 
New (and final) mix here - Vocals Completely Re-done.

kcearl said:
I listened to the first mix, then the last one...its funny how Im only worth my mixing salt in my own genre..that sounds a night and day difference...the guitars are way better and the drums rock...really drive it, especially at the end when you're doing the human kazoo bit...boom boom boom...excellent

snare sounds great to me too now

good work...both of you lol
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Thanks, dude! Have a listen to the new mix and let me know what ya think. Re-mixed the drums completely, and re-recorded completely new vocals. Almost sounds like a different song to me now, and I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.

heatmiser said:
Ok, I think I missed mixes 2&3, but 4 does sound better than 1. The guitar drive is much more reasonable at this point and with less fizz, I find myself wishing they were louder now.

I thought the drums sounded pretty good the first time around, but they are certainly more prominent now. Bass sounds cool. Good job tweaking this.
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Yeah, Pete... I'm so torn on this song. I usually just slap something together, give it a good mixing and call it good. This one has been driving me nuts. So, I re-mixed the drums, and re-did the vocals. Give it a listen, and let me know what ya think.

trumpino1 said:
Dude, I like the hell out of this song. I will say that I was going to comment a few days ago, but I am glad I didn't because I would have said it sounds good as is. The fizz guitars didn't bother me that much really, but I like the sound here on the Mix 3 way damned better.

I like the vocals on this. It kind of reminds me of a mix between Smashing Pumpkins and Korn. You are great at this stuff dude. :)
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Thanks, Trump! Very kind words, indeed. With this genre, I really feel like I'm just flopping around in the pool wondering what the heck I'm doing. Thanks for the vote of confidence! We're on mix 6 now, and I'd love your input. I hope I didn't change the song too much...

chrisharris said:
See, to me...I'm picking up more of a System Of A Down vibe from the vocals.

Just stopping by to say it's getting better with every mix. The only thing that's bugging me now is near the beginning of the song on the vocal...the first time you go up, it really sounds more like vocal distortion than effect. Does it a couple of times after that too, but I think it clears up later in the song. I don't know if there's anything you can do about it, and I'm sorry I don't have a time marker, but I just thought I'd mention it.
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Thanks, Chris. This last mix was a doozie. Please give it a listen and let me know what ya think. I can't decide, but if I get any more frustrated, this mix will most likely end up being the last one.

Vocal fizziness should be completely taken care of. I just hope it didn't loose the flavor it had before.

New (and final) mix here - Vocals Completely Re-done.
 
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