ITB Mixing, how good can you get it? (CLA content)

[Simman]

I understand what you're trying to achieve, IMO, I think you've overdone it on this mix, that's all. Sure, CLA is known for punchy aggressive mixes but they are not lifeless to the point that his mixes suck the air out of your ears. Watch his videos about his plug-ins, he talks about the subtleties of using an LA-3 to shape the tone of guitars. It's more than just reducing the attack and release times and compressing the snot out of everything. It's finding that balance (easier said then done) between what is heavily compressed and what is not.

 

[bkkornaker]

ok, heres another version, but the Snare and guitars got LESS compression. The guitars also got a bit of low end boosted (so its not so sterile), and the buss compression was reduced so the SSL comp and API are booth in gain reduction of 0.5db each.

I honestly like the old version better after hearing this one. The old one just had more Punch and "in your face". This one doesn't excite me the way the old one did.

View attachment 5-11-mas-bed2.mp3

 

[Greg_L]

Wow, tough crowd in here.........

Seems like eveything i post in here, is utter crap to you guys. Does anyone ever have something positive to say?

I said you nailed it.

 

[hppnq]

But this thread seems to have been nothing but "negative vibes' of "dont bother trying to achieve a CLA mix" it seems.

Im not posting here to necessarily critique my mix, but rather posting yet again on a year old thread of trying to get a "CLA Style" mix completely ITB. Its more of trying to de-bunk a myth on "Analog is better than ITB" thing. Its tough to try to do such a thing.

Some of the advice given here was spot on with respect to the ITB versus analog discussions, of which there are many, most of them completely pointless. Use your ears. Treat your room. You are most probably never going to be able to produce *any* decent sound if you can't hear what you should be hearing and if you hear what you shouldn't be hearing. In any case ITB or OTB has nothing to do with that.

Whether or not you will be able to produce a *particular* sound is a different question. Typically, this kind of question ignites religious debates about any aspect of songwriting, arranging, tracking, mixing and mastering you can think of, because any particular sound is a blend of all these components. I think it is certain that 1) you can never get there and 2) you can get close. Here, of course, it does make a difference whether George Martin is tracking Eric Clapton in Number 2 or Joe Random Shredder produces himself in a bedroom in Queens, NYC, especially if you are trying to sound like Eric rather than Joe.

Some people here have been quite successful at emulating famous sounds (which I think can be a very good exercise and/or a lot of fun) -- greg_l's recent take on the Wall of sound comes to mind, and I remember rami doing a very good interpretation of a Beatles sound a while ago. I don't know what CLA sounds like, so I unfortunately I can't comment on how close you got. In any case, even with the compression your recent mix is better than the other one you posted earlier in this thread. ;-)

 

[bkkornaker]

Thank you Greg_L, yes....i did see your kind post.

IMO, i think i got pretty damn close using nothing but ITB tools. As far as if you guys/gals think this mix is rubbish, is purely because you probably dont like CLA mixes to being with. So of course no matter what i do, you will always think its "not good".

Im not here to contest about audio "purist" ideas and how over compression is bad, headroom is good, Analog is king, Loudness wars suck, etc......

I simply wanted to take characteristics of one ME's sound, and try to achieve such a sound using nothing but ITB tools. After A/Bing and listening to this last mix in my car, i think i agree with Greg_L........nailed it.

 

[RAMI]

i think i agree with Greg_L........nailed it.

Great. So if you're so convinced you nailed it, you don't need our opinion, now do you?

(BTW, I don't even think Greg agrees with Greg on this one. Your sarcasm detector is as dead as your mix)

 

[bkkornaker]

Great. So if you're so convinced you nailed it, you don't need our opinion, now do you?

(BTW, I don't even think Greg agrees with Greg on this one. Your sarcasm detector is as dead as your mix)

H H ah aha aha ha a. I knew he was being sarcastic. I just went along with it.

Man, for being a HOME recording forum, it sure is filled up with alot of "cork sniffers" that act as if they have the final say in "how it SHOULD sound" as if it was part of the 10 commandments. Why are you all even here? Shouldn't you be hanging out in the ProRecording Forums if thou all are so high and mighty?

Not to sound like a d*ck or point this comment to anyone in particular,..... but man......

Whats the point of even being here in this forum anymore if your going to get nailed at the cross with the same old cliche' bullshit rules about tracking/mixing?

Yes, its Dead/Lifeless and robbed of all its dynamics......just like ALOT of modern mixes are nowadays. Its the sound i was going for.

 

[RAMI]

same old cliche' bullshit rules about tracking/mixing?.........Yes, its Dead/Lifeless and robbed of all its dynamics......just like ALOT of modern mixes are nowadays. Its the sound i was going for.

You're talking about "cliche" and "bullshit"...and then you're admitting that you made something sound like garbage deliberately because that's what "ALOT of modern mixes are nowoadys"???? Dude, I think your squashed mixes have squashed your brain a bit too much. You've gone daft.

On behalf of everyone here, I apologize for not telling you how awesome you are. That's obviously all you wanted to hear.

Believe me, you're not dealing with a bunch of purists in this place. You're simply getting the opinions of people who found your mix/master hard to listen to. Live with it or get lost. Nobody really gives a crap.

 

[Greg_L]

Lol. This is silly.

 

[miroslav]

Yes, its Dead/Lifeless and robbed of all its dynamics......just like ALOT of modern mixes are nowadays. Its the sound i was going for.

Interesting goal.....


Can some please tell me...WTF is CLA???
I Googled it...and came up with:

Cambodian Living Arts
Christian Life Assembly Music Ministry
California Lawyers for the Arts
Country Legends Association

..................???


<EDIT>

Never mind...
I thought it refered to an artist, but now I realize he's talking about engineer Chris Lord-Alge.
That explains the obsession with over-compression.

Sorry...I didn't bother reading the thread from the very beginning.
So like...did you buy the Waves CLA pluging pack...and then just hit the mix with everything that came in the box?

 

[RAMI]

Lol. This is silly.

Yes, its Silly/Stupid and robbed of all its intelligence......just like ALOT of modern threads are nowadays. Its the vibe i was going for.

 

[Greg_L]

I understand the dude's mission. That really sterile, lifeless, uber-seperated mixing style is very popular these days. I gotta give him credit - he's pretty close to that generic, cold sound. I don't know why it's so important to do it "ITB" though. Most of the shit this dude is trying to emulate is done ITB with samples, sims, and all sorts of quantizing and editing. Big deal. I'm just wondering what took him so long to get it this close.

 

[bkkornaker]

you made something sound like garbage deliberately because that's what "ALOT of modern mixes are nowoadys"???? You're simply getting the opinions of people who found your mix/master hard to listen to.

I told myself i wasn't going to post in here again, but for some reason.....i actually enjoy arguing with you guys. You stand by your views, and i admire that.

but the reason i QUOTED you above is because, you should think of it in this view/context...

Mastering Engineers purposely kill modern day music by being over-loud, less dynamic and squished.,.....mostly due to popular demand and the current trend (plus they want to get PAID). Weather or not they like it, or agree with it....they do it still. Most people tell themselves "its hard to listen to because its so squished and loud". But ya know what? 80-90% of today's music IS that way.

So in theory, YES....i am following a trend. Is it so wrong? Maybe so, maybe not. I guess people get so upset when they hear modern music that is the current trend...."OH MY GOD! ITS SO LOUD! THERES NO DYNAMICS! ITS SO BRIGHT and STERILE! ITS PUMPING LIKE CRAZY! EVERY THING IS SO COMPRESSED!"

Most music today is that way.....deal with it. Im not here to break the mold of the current trend. If I want to make $$$ in today's industry, i have to swim with the fishes in the same stream.

Im not here to make enemies or talk bad about any one of you. Like I said, i admire your passion, enthusiasm and your "views" on how music SHOULD BE, and i agree with all of you. But lets face it fellas........not a single person here in this thread is making music that will forever change the current trend of today's sound. If you were, you surly wouldn't be hangin out in a HOME RECORDING FORUM. You wouldn't be posting in any forum for that matter, ....you would be too busy working with Today's Top Clients.

So why argue about who is "wrong or right"? Is it so wrong to follow today's trend for now?

Either way, I have a new revised mix for you all. I dont expect any of you guys to listen to it. Probably most of you haven't even listened to any that i have posted so far anyways. But its a bit less compressed, guitars are more smooth and well........its a compromise from today's trend versus a more "likeable/traditional" sound.

View attachment 5-11crunch-mas.mp3

**EDIT: and thanks for the little red "chicklets", that color is nice on me

 

[jimmys69]

I told myself i wasn't going to post in here again, but for some reason.....i actually enjoy arguing with you guys. You stand by your views, and i admire that.

but the reason i QUOTED you above is because, you should think of it in this view/context...

Mastering Engineers purposely kill modern day music by being over-loud, less dynamic and squished.,.....mostly due to popular demand and the current trend (plus they want to get PAID). Weather or not they like it, or agree with it....they do it still. Most people tell themselves "its hard to listen to because its so squished and loud". But ya know what? 80-90% of today's music IS that way.

So in theory, YES....i am following a trend. Is it so wrong? Maybe so, maybe not. I guess people get so upset when they hear modern music that is the current trend...."OH MY GOD! ITS SO LOUD! THERES NO DYNAMICS! ITS SO BRIGHT and STERILE! ITS PUMPING LIKE CRAZY! EVERY THING IS SO COMPRESSED!"

Most music today is that way.....deal with it. Im not here to break the mold of the current trend. If I want to make $$$ in today's industry, i have to swim with the fishes in the same stream.

Im not here to make enemies or talk bad about any one of you. Like I said, i admire your passion, enthusiasm and your "views" on how music SHOULD BE, and i agree with all of you. But lets face it fellas........not a single person here in this thread is making music that will forever change the current trend of today's sound. If you were, you surly wouldn't be hangin out in a HOME RECORDING FORUM. You wouldn't be posting in any forum for that matter, ....you would be too busy working with Today's Top Clients.

So why argue about who is "wrong or right"? Is it so wrong to follow today's trend for now?

Either way, I have a new revised mix for you all. I dont expect any of you guys to listen to it. Probably most of you haven't even listened to any that i have posted so far anyways. But its a bit less compressed, guitars are more smooth and well........its a compromise from today's trend versus a more "likeable/traditional" sound.

View attachment 66150

It seems you are confusing comments about 'being loud' and 'no dynamics' with completely destroying a song. I think you are taking these over exaggerated statements and trying to make them reality. No CLA mix sounds like crap. Just too compressed for some tastes. You don't actually hear the compression unless you have a trained ear for that. Trying to make it a sound or effect in essence, makes it offensive to the ears. It is not an effect. It is a result. Approaching it backwards I think is why you are having such backlash from people here.

 

[bkkornaker]

'being loud' and 'no dynamics' .......taking these over exaggerated statements and trying to make them reality. No CLA mix sounds like crap. Just too compressed for some tastes

its not exaggerated......these things (loud, no dynamics, too compressed) ARE a reality. Im not TRYING to make them a reality......they already exist. If they didnt exist....we wouldn't be arguing about them now, would we?

 

[jimmys69]

its not exaggerated......these things (loud, no dynamics, too compressed) ARE a reality. Im not TRYING to make them a reality......they already exist. If they didnt exist....we wouldn't be arguing about them now, would we?

Yes, they are exaggerated, when you can hear that they are exaggerated. That is what I am saying, you are hearing the result of the mix as being over compressed, therefore going into it trying to create the effect. It is coming across to me as an effect, not a result. I sounds fake to me. This is obviously just an abstract theory but I hear it. And so do others. I don't hear it being so obvious from your idols recordings. I'm not trying to be a dick here man. Just trying to give a subjective opinion as to why it does not sound the same. I think you are going for the result before focusing on the steps it takes to get there. Not knocking you, just kicking ya a bit in the shin to get you thinking why.

 

[hppnq]

So why argue about who is "wrong or right"? Is it so wrong to follow today's trend for now?

Lol @ not being interested in your own topic. Look, you wanted opinions, you got them, you lashed out. Classic behaviour. Move on with your life.

 

[RAMI]

It seems you are confusing comments about 'being loud' and 'no dynamics' with completely destroying a song. I think you are taking these over exaggerated statements and trying to make them reality. No CLA mix sounds like crap. .

Exactly. This bozo just doesn't get it. He's trying to convince people his crap doesn't sound like crap because he got his feelings hurts. It's pathetic.

We weren't born yesterday. Most of us understand that today's music is LOUD. We get that. But like Jimmy says, the people you're trying to copy have much better SOUND than you're acheiving. That's just a fact. Get over it already. You're a needy little baby looking for a compliment, and you're embarrassing yourself.....badly.

 

[Greg_L]

I told myself i wasn't going to post in here again, but for some reason.....i actually enjoy arguing with you guys. You stand by your views, and i admire that.

but the reason i QUOTED you above is because, you should think of it in this view/context...

Mastering Engineers purposely kill modern day music by being over-loud, less dynamic and squished.,.....mostly due to popular demand and the current trend (plus they want to get PAID). Weather or not they like it, or agree with it....they do it still. Most people tell themselves "its hard to listen to because its so squished and loud". But ya know what? 80-90% of today's music IS that way.

So in theory, YES....i am following a trend. Is it so wrong? Maybe so, maybe not. I guess people get so upset when they hear modern music that is the current trend...."OH MY GOD! ITS SO LOUD! THERES NO DYNAMICS! ITS SO BRIGHT and STERILE! ITS PUMPING LIKE CRAZY! EVERY THING IS SO COMPRESSED!"

Most music today is that way.....deal with it. Im not here to break the mold of the current trend. If I want to make $$$ in today's industry, i have to swim with the fishes in the same stream.

Im not here to make enemies or talk bad about any one of you. Like I said, i admire your passion, enthusiasm and your "views" on how music SHOULD BE, and i agree with all of you. But lets face it fellas........not a single person here in this thread is making music that will forever change the current trend of today's sound. If you were, you surly wouldn't be hangin out in a HOME RECORDING FORUM. You wouldn't be posting in any forum for that matter, ....you would be too busy working with Today's Top Clients.

So why argue about who is "wrong or right"? Is it so wrong to follow today's trend for now?

Either way, I have a new revised mix for you all. I dont expect any of you guys to listen to it. Probably most of you haven't even listened to any that i have posted so far anyways. But its a bit less compressed, guitars are more smooth and well........its a compromise from today's trend versus a more "likeable/traditional" sound.

View attachment 66150

**EDIT: and thanks for the little red "chicklets", that color is nice on me

I agree 100% with what you're saying. Loud isn't new and it's not going anywhere. I've been saying that all along and have gotten into many of these same kinds of discussions over it. I actually like loud and don't give too much of a fuck about outdated concepts like "dynamics", because regular listeners simply don't care. So, I totally get it. Monkey see, monkey do. You gotta be loud and sterile like all the other shit out there if you want any chance at making $$$. It's a foolish and naive dream to have, but hey, you gotta have a dream. As for no one making a dent in music, who cares? Neither are you. Your music is disposable pap.

Your problem is you suck, and you are way naive and stupid about it, and don't even realize it. That's funny for everyone.

 

[RAMI]

I have a new revised mix for you all. I dont expect any of you guys to listen to it. Probably most of you haven't even listened to any that i have posted so far anyways. But its a bit less compressed, guitars are more smooth and well........its a compromise from today's trend versus a more "likeable/traditional" sound.

[

I can assure you I listened to your first mix.

But I'm trying to understand why you made a new mix that's "less compressed, guitars are smoother, etc....". It makes no sense. You claimed that you NAILED it already. You told us we have no idea what we're talking about. You think you're the only one in this thread that "gets" the whole loudness thing.....and afer all that, you go and change your mix based on what WE said we heard???? Are you completley retarded?????