Isolation Clips...$$$ !!!

[punkin]

I'm in the process of remodelling my practice room. I'm trying to significantly improve the sound isolation between the walls and ceiling. I've been looking at isolation clips...boy are those buggers expensive!

I'm planning a 2x6 wall with staggered framing, floating from wall and ceiling, two layers of sheet rock on each side with dense fiberglass between. I was planning to use isolation clips to mount the sheet rock.

Any alternatives? Do this things peform well for the price or is there a cost effective way to do this?

sjl

 

[Michael Jones]

I'm not sure what you're calling Isolation Clips.?
I think I know what they are, but the ones I've seen aren't for mounting sheetrock to a wall.

Look into resilient channel for mounting sheetrock to the studs.

 

[punkin]

Ok...I'm getting it now...the isolation hangers I've been looking at are for doubling up sheet rock for installations where the walls are already existing.

Thanks for helping to clear that up for me.

 

[Rod Gervais]

I'm in the process of remodelling my practice room. I'm trying to significantly improve the sound isolation between the walls and ceiling. I've been looking at isolation clips...boy are those buggers expensive!

I'm planning a 2x6 wall with staggered framing, floating from wall and ceiling, two layers of sheet rock on each side with dense fiberglass between. I was planning to use isolation clips to mount the sheet rock.

Any alternatives? Do this things peform well for the price or is there a cost effective way to do this?

sjl

sjl,

They work very well - in fact it is almost impossible to screw up the installation.

BUT - there are alternatives.

My 1st question would be "why are you building a staggered wall as opposed to 2 totally seperate frames?"

2 2x4 walls with a 1" air space will give you better isolation - and stop the potential for flanking between the common plates.

If you build 2 seperate walls you don't really gain with the RISC 1 clips (or RC for that matter)

That would save you money......... money that could be spent on additional drywall layers (and THAT would gain you a lot).

Rod

 

[punkin]

I guess I never thought of that...seems simpler in a long run...hmmm. Good thought...thanks!

What about my ceiling...there's a living space above. I suppose I would have to still use the resilient channel. I was planning to apply acoustic rubber between the ceiling joists then high density insulation. Finish as usual with sheet rock then...resilient channel and another layer of sheet rock.

Does this sound like a reasonable approach?


Again, thanks for taking the time to respond.


sjl

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

I'm trying to significantly improve the sound isolation between the walls and ceiling.

Hmmmm, I don't understand that. Why are you trying to isolate the wall from the ceiling? Maybe I'm reading this wrong

Let me ask Rod something too. Hello Rod. IF, he builds a seperate wall, in order to isolate it from the existing structure, it would seem to me that he would also need to frame and rock a NEW ceiling below the existing ceiling to gain the complete benifit of seperate walls. Is that correct? Also, since the new wall plate is fastened to the existing floor,(or is it?) to what extent does structural transmission through the existing floor reduce the effectiveness of seperate wall construction?(flanking?) Same with the ceiling if he doesn't build a new one. Not only that, but if he doesn't build a new ceiling, then the new walls must have a connection to not only the floor, but to the existing ceiling as well, which then seems like the new seperate walls would have even less effectiveness, no? I'm trying to understand the advantage of simply building new walls and nothing else, multiple layers or gyp bd. or not.

fitZ

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

What about my ceiling...there's a living space above. I suppose I would have to still use the resilient channel

Ahhhhhh! the elusive information! Thats why I always tell people to provide as much information as possible to get the best advice. I think this puts a whole new light on your conditions and approach. Is the existing ceiling just open framing or is it already sheetrocked? What is the existing height in the space you are planning? Any HVAC? Noise producers(furnaces etc?) What is the space above and how deep are the existing floor joists?
How are you planning on ISOLATING the connection of the new walls to the existing ceiling, as structure borne noise(walking, radios, etc) could possibly transmit directly to the new walls, thereby negating new wall construction, at least to me. How bout it Rod? Is this a consideration?
SJL, I think you need to really explore the ceiling conditions, as this could be a major clink in your plan for "significant isolation". What do you mean by significant? Is there some type of environmental or upstairs noise that is also significant? Any HVAC ducts, or flanking paths from adjacent areas, such as between the floor joists above the new wall connection to the ceiling ? Those sort of things ALL have a bearing on isolation details. Hmmmm, this doesn't sound like a slam bam thankyou mam proposition That is IF you want "significant isolation".
fitZ

 

[Rod Gervais]

Hmmmm, I don't understand that. Why are you trying to isolate the wall from the ceiling? Maybe I'm reading this wrong

Let me ask Rod something too. Hello Rod. IF, he builds a seperate wall, in order to isolate it from the existing structure, it would seem to me that he would also need to frame and rock a NEW ceiling below the existing ceiling to gain the complete benifit of seperate walls. Is that correct?

Yes and no......... you would think that if the ceiling is not decoupled that it wouldn't make any sense to decouple the walls from the ceiling.

This however isn't completely true....... decoupled walls - regardless of the ceiling will still reduce the transmissions (flanking) that would have transmitted through the walls. And that is an improvement.

It would be best however if the ceiling were seperated as well.

Also, since the new wall plate is fastened to the existing floor,(or is it?) to what extent does structural transmission through the existing floor reduce the effectiveness of seperate wall construction?(flanking?) Same with the ceiling if he doesn't build a new one. Not only that, but if he doesn't build a new ceiling, then the new walls must have a connection to not only the floor, but to the existing ceiling as well, which then seems like the new seperate walls would have even less effectiveness, no? I'm trying to understand the advantage of simply building new walls and nothing else, multiple layers or gyp bd. or not.

Understand that anything you do that reduces transmission is a gain.

Will a framed floor - with wall framing sitting on plywood - transmit flanking noise - probably - will a connected bottom and top plate transmit more - yes.

As far as the framing attachment to the ceiling goes - this can be done without structurally coupling the 2 - there are isolation braces for sale - and they aren't that difficult to make at home if one wants.

Rod

 

[punkin]

Sorry guys....didn't expect so much input on this. Here's what I've done and what I'm trying to acheive.

An existing basment about 1400 sq ft. with floating concrete slab floor (padded and carpeted). This area was once and will again be subivided into four rooms. A practice/live recording room, a vocals isolation booth a listening/sitting/mixing room and a restroom...I'm just getting started planning to do one room at a time, starting with the practice room.

I've been working in this space with fairly good results for the last couple years... the biggest gripe I've got is the over head noise (in and out) especially during group sessions. My mission is to add significantly to the isolation between upstairs and down. I've gotten serious about this and in dealing with the demolition and construction, it seems appropriate to consider a complete remodel. Last week finished up demolition by completely removing the old partitioning walls, the over-head sheetrock and the insulation. The joists are now completely exposed.

Since I'm committed to rebuilding interrior walls, I thought I would take a few "reasonable" precautions to quiet the walls while I'm at it...not looking to make totally sound proof rooms but if I can take some simple, cost effective measures, I'm game. Looking at the materials, I looks like nearly a wash to use 2x6 staggered walls with rigid compressed fiberglass and RC or as option "B", build a second wall.

Planning to use compressed rigid fiberglass, sound proofing rubber material, two layers of sheet rock with RC on the ceiling. (Thoughts on this?)

Because of our expansive soil conditions here in CO., we are required by local code to use floating/suspended walls...meaning that the wall must hang from the ceilings rather than rest on the concrete slab. This is the big challange...looking to isolate the walls from the ceiling. I've talked with some contactors...I've had a couple refer to "suspension doughnuts"...not sure what this product is yet but I'm still looking (Suggestions?)

My previous set up had AC/Heat ducting made out of compressed fiberglass material with a foil like outside covering...I had a contractor take this on for me...now after seeing how simple this is, I'm going to tackle this my self. I ended up inserting a few baffles within the openings to quiet the moving air sounds and had quite good results. The basement is served by it's own forced air furnace/AC unit...the noise has only really been a problem in the vocal booth I have a closable vent to minimize sounds from room to room and, I just turn the furnace off during vocal sessions....I'm planning to continue this moving forward.

Again, not planning anything too exotic but while the area is opened up and gutted, I want to kick it up a notch with emphasis on the ceiling.

Also, thanks again for the responses...really didn't expect anyone to really jump into it but if you're game, I'll take any advice from those willing and knowledgable.


regards,
punkin

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Because of our expansive soil conditions here in CO., we are required by local code to use floating/suspended walls...meaning that the wall must hang from the ceilings rather than rest on the concrete slab. This is the big challange...looking to isolate the walls from the ceiling. I've talked with some contactors...I've had a couple refer to "suspension doughnuts"...not sure what this product is yet but I'm still looking (Suggestions?)

Holy moly. More elusive info. Talk about new light on things. Hey punkin, you need to read the thread on this exact subject at John Sayers site. I have to get to work and can't link it right now, but if you do a search in the construction forum at his site, its all been covered.

fitZ