Is this epic?

[Steenamaroo]

Hey guys.

I've had more than my fair share of feedback lately and I'm very grateful for it.

Ordinarily I'm happy with my mix and I pick up nits here and there that help.
With this one mix I'm genuinely not sure If I'm happy. Maybe I've just heard it too much?

Anyway, It's a 6 minute ballad. Nothing happens until 3 minutes in so feel free to skip. (phew).
There's a big unexpected build up section and I'm not sure the vocal carries.

It's the closing track on a 10 track pop/acoustic record so the fact that it's a long ballad is a shock, then the build up is your double whammy.

I've loved/hated this so many times that I think I just need a few people to say yay or nay to me.

The build up is meant to bang in and be a bit of a shock to the system. Epic in a way.
If it's not epic or at least pretty powerful, it's a waste of time, you know?

I want the listener (assuming they like it) to get to the end and take a breath and go "Wow, I didn't see that coming" or whatever.

If anyone wants to listen in full that's great, but if not, please just get the idea of how the beginning goes then skip to 3:00.
Thanks in advance folks.

 

[Mr Clean]

Sounds pretty damn good to me mate. At volume I feel the 'boom' is sometimes just a little too loud/bassy/boomy while other times it's perfect. Can't really put my finger on it. It sounds good all the same though. I wonder what it would sound like if not so bassy/boomy and more distant. Like from the top of a hill or something, if you know what I mean.

The rest of the backing sounds mint to me. The acoustic is lovely and the vocals are crystal to me. I'm ever-so-slightly biased though as I really like the song.

I'm sure other will chime in with better help/suggestions soon enough though

 

[RAMI]

I think it builds up awesomely. I even love the first 3 minutes that you told us to skip. I'm not sure about "epic", but when I think epic, I think of the theme to "Superman". But I do believe it accomplishes what you're going for.

Man, the vocals and guitar sound great in the first part.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Cheers Clean. You could well be right about the boom. I'm having hell of a time judging it because it's so verbed.

I think it builds up awesomely. I even love the first 3 minutes that you told us to skip. I'm not sure about "epic", but when I think epic, I think of the theme to "Superman". But I do believe it accomplishes what you're going for.

Man, the vocals and guitar sound great in the first part.

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Thanks, Rami.

 

[Mr Clean]

Simon & Garfunkel's - The Boxer has a similar kind of thing you're trying to achieve although that is a snare hit, sounds more like a gunshot though. Maybe worth having a quick listen and see if it inspires you for a sound.

I can see how it's a tricky one to pull off, sometimes it's perfect and others just feels a bit too much. Might worth a go at trying it with it lower in the mix and distanced. Gradually build it up and bring it closer as the ending builds.

that's all I got

 

[fullbirdmusic]

I think it builds up awesomely. I even love the first 3 minutes that you told us to skip. I'm not sure about "epic", but when I think epic, I think of the theme to "Superman". But I do believe it accomplishes what you're going for.

Man, the vocals and guitar sound great in the first part.

Agreed, it's not so much epic as it is a release of the tension the intro part gives us. Vocals are well-recorded but the only thing I would suggest is to put a de-esser on them. They're a bit strong sometimes with the sibilance Overall a pretty dang good song, I like it.

 

[Steenamaroo]

I would suggest is to put a de-esser on them.

Already done..He's a freaking nightmare and I hate him for it.
Just makes it an absolute pain in the ass to use any reverb or delay. The latter is causing the problem in the buildup.


Thanks for the tips guys. I'll maybe look into that snare thing; That's cool.

 

[ManInMotion711]

DUDE, this is pretty awesome. Im really feeling these lyrics. Build up is awesome and i agree with RAMI, It would have been a bad idea to skip the first 3 minutes.

 

[heatmiser]

So, is this the same track we got to hear a while back with an earlier version of the build up? I think it is, but not 100%...

Anyway, it sounds great. Such attention to detail...you can really hear that a lot of work went into this.

Myself, I'd like the build up to be louder overall in comparison with his voice and the earlier sections of the song. I can hear all the parts in there to make it epic, but for me, the overall volume of those new elements isn't high enough to provide the impact. When his voice comes back in, the build up became just a more elaborate backing than the earlier parts of the song. That is just me though, and I don't have a great monitoring set up here and I'm not an expert on anything, let alone this genre (insert endless list of disclaimers here).

 

[Steenamaroo]

Thanks Man in Motion.

Heat, you've kinda hit on my fear. I'm really struggling with levels througout.
I don't want the first three minutes to be really quiet just so the build up can really kick, and I don't wanna squash the build up.
It's a real happy medium affair, I suppose.

 

[dobro]

Really nice tune. Maybe the bass drum's too boomy. Did you want that boominess? If it was me, I'd be smacking more lowcut on that fellow. But I'd be leaving just a *hint* of it in, cuz it's cool.

 

[PTravel]

I REALLY like that! I love the build to the music and you've got a great vocal quality -- just right for the piece. I'm really knocked out by the lyrics -- I assume their yours? The imagery is original and very effective and some of your turns of phrase -- "Ignorance is bliss, love is not," -- are just brilliant. Great song, man!

 

[fritsthegirl]

This would make me a happy customer as a closing tune. Love the change at 3:00 and didn't mind at all to listen to the first part to get to it. You got a gift for hitting me right in the gut with your music, it's totally my kind of style. Going to hunt out James Dean again (I can't remember what it's called exactly) this reminded me of how much I enjoyed that one too.

 

[JimmyS1969]

Dood! I think it sounds great! I don't even hear the 'ess' issue. Maybe you already dealt with it. Did you stick his vocal track in the oven? lol


I think the whole mix works perfectly with the song. Well done man!

 

[DM60]

This would make me a happy customer as a closing tune. Love the change at 3:00 and didn't mind at all to listen to the first part to get to it. You got a gift for hitting me right in the gut with your music, it's totally my kind of style. Going to hunt out James Dean again (I can't remember what it's called exactly) this reminded me of how much I enjoyed that one too.

I think most has already been said, I could see the first three minutes being cut down to 30-60 seconds with little struggle.
Nice tune, I wouldn't mind knowing your reverb plugin/hardware.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Afternoon folks.
Thanks for all the encouraging replies.

Really nice tune. Maybe the bass drum's too boomy. Did you want that boominess? If it was me, I'd be smacking more lowcut on that fellow. But I'd be leaving just a *hint* of it in, cuz it's cool.

I don't want it to be overpowering but in truth, I'm struggling to judge it.
That's no.1 on my to-do list. I wanted a big powerful sub rumble without stepping on anything's toes. Might not happen...
Thanks Dobro.

I REALLY like that! I love the build to the music and you've got a great vocal quality -- just right for the piece. I'm really knocked out by the lyrics -- I assume their yours? The imagery is original and very effective and some of your turns of phrase -- "Ignorance is bliss, love is not," -- are just brilliant. Great song, man!

Hey, thanks for weighing in PTravel.
I'll pass on the compliments but the lyrics and vocals are Pete Gardiner's.
We have a good working friendship where he brings the songs on guitar and I build the mix in the studio.
I have to admit now, I'm a big fan of his lyrics.
I think you notice different phrases on each listen - He can be rapid sometimes.

This would make me a happy customer as a closing tune. Love the change at 3:00 and didn't mind at all to listen to the first part to get to it. You got a gift for hitting me right in the gut with your music, it's totally my kind of style. Going to hunt out James Dean again (I can't remember what it's called exactly) this reminded me of how much I enjoyed that one too.

Hey, Thanks Frits. A happy customer is the main thing here. Certainly ain't no radio track.
Maybe epic was a strong choice of words, but hitting you in the gut is perfectly acceptable!

That other track is indeed called James Dean.

Dood! I think it sounds great! I don't even hear the 'ess' issue. Maybe you already dealt with it. Did you stick his vocal track in the oven? lol

I think the whole mix works perfectly with the song. Well done man!

Cheers Jim. I haven't done anything else to the esses. There's a fairly strong de esser on there already but going any harder with it just sounds like a cloth over the speaker.
The master of last years EP sounds like that to me.
Tom mastered it - That's no criticism of him incase he happens upon this. I guess it had to be done.

I think most has already been said, I could see the first three minutes being cut down to 30-60 seconds with little struggle.
Nice tune, I wouldn't mind knowing your reverb plugin/hardware.

Fair enough DM. I thought more people would feel like that but the majority seemed to be ok with the length.
I think in context it works well, but that's just my opinion.
You've 9 fairly catchy songs ranging from 2:30 to about 4:00, then this.
The shortest and catchiest song directly precedes this track. It feels like welcome relief in a way when I listen to the whole record.

My reverbs are all Waves software. I rely heavily on the rverb and sometimes the trueverb gets used on an aux track for a group.
Maybe hand percussion or harmonies or whatever.


Thanks everyone.
I'm pretty much pitching this as the finished article (after kick drum tweaks), so your feedback is massively appreciated.

 

[jonny deep]

Hey Steeno. Sorry I'm late to the party.

Yep, I think you achieved what you're going for - at the main break after the build the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. I really wanted a fuller rock drum sound, but that's probably not what you're going for. I felt that after the first boom at around two minutes, we heard it again too quickly. The first one instilled some good tension, but it was broken too quickly, IMHO.

Otherwise, this is perfect.

 

[Greg_L]

I can't say if it's epic or not. I would say no, simply because this sterile kind of adult acoustic rock does nothing for me. I found the build up to be done well though. My only problem with it is that the build up definitely gets thicker, but it doesn't really change in energy to me. It's the same old slow folkie tune just with more stuff in it. It doesn't hit me as an emotional orgasm or anything. Lol. I got no chills. I'm not a good judge though. I'm not a fan of this style of music. On the plus side, you've recorded it very well and I think the mix is clean, clear, and very balanced. The only mix aspects I don't like are the reverb/delay on the vocals during the "built up" part, and the monster room on the kick drum. During the intro, the vocal effect is much more subtle and pleasing to me. It didn't need to get hairier for the build up. The huge room kick drum is just personal taste. I think you could achieve the same stylistic purpose with much less.

 

[Jefrome]

It's quite good! Not sure what I need to hear t call it 'Epic' but this has feeling One thing what struck me was the volume increase after a silence. For example at 3:29. And as told above, after the buildup I would expect something more energizing.

Not really into this type of music but it's not bad !

 

[Steenamaroo]

I can't say if it's epic or not. I would say no, simply because this sterile kind of adult acoustic rock does nothing for me.

Fair enough, Greg. Thanks for listening through regardless.

I found the build up to be done well though. My only problem with it is that the build up definitely gets thicker, but it doesn't really change in energy to me. It's the same old slow folkie tune just with more stuff in it.

Damn. I wish I knew what to do.
I mean, I've put in all these elements that are pretty energetic on their own, but it just seems to melt into one sound.
I do think it's banging, but I'd totally agree that it's.....consistent?

It's quite good! Not sure what I need to hear t call it 'Epic' but this has feeling One thing what struck me was the volume increase after a silence. For example at 3:29. And as told above, after the buildup I would expect something more energizing.

Not really into this type of music but it's not bad !

Shame. I think you're all correct; I was just hoping you wouldn't pick up on it.
Originally I had a pretty good balance where the intro few minutes were a lot quieter than what followed.
The build up was as is, but kick into something much louder.
I've ended up levelling the whole thing out a bit in the interests of maintaining overall levels.

Ordinarily I'd be more interested in dynamic range and the feel of the thing, but the extremes were ridiculous.
Going from track 9 into this was a definite 'turn up the stereo' moment.


I'm encouraged that every criticism seems to have a counter.
Don't like the style/well done though - Not epic/has feeling.
I hope I'm not reading too much into that.


I'll live with it for a day or two and see if I can come up with something extra.
I think the trouble is that everything I add ends up running through the whole thing.
Maybe harmonies on the first two lines of the built up section....full blown church bells in the next few bars...banged piano octaves in the next and add the heap together for the last?
Thanks guys.