Is my song ruined ??? Help a poor fellow recordist ..

[cjacek]

Hi,

Well ... my first mp3 posting here from my TASCAM 244 but all is not well. The good news is that finally I have uploaded something! The bad news is that between 1:09 and 1:13, during the song, you can hear a very strange distortion. It's been showing up on my recordings occassionally and now I'm pissed 'cause I like this particular "take" and it may have ruined it. For the record, my 244 is "mint", I only use quality type II tape from name brands like Maxell and Fuji and clean the heads with 99% alcohol and cotton swabs before every "session". What is that strange "distortion" ? Can the recording be "saved" or repaired in anyway, without re-doing it ? Please click below to d/l.

SONG

Thanks for your help!

Daniel

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Daniel,

First of all, nice set of pipes you have there!

Memories of Elvis to be sure!

About the mystery noise; It sounds like a drop out to me on the original tape but it's hard to know for sure without seeing your meters move on the individual vocal track.

Do they dip down during the stuttering of the sound at all? I realize that it is quite momentary in duration.

My best suggestion is to try to redo your vocal just in that passage area on another un-used track to see if the oxide drop out goes right across the width of the tape or just on that channel.

If you can successfully repeat that one line of lyrics on another track and level match it well on mix-down, you should be able to just turn off the bad channel, simultaneously turning on the good on and again at the tail of line and problem solved.

Very impressive sound quality on the recording too!

I am impressed.

Cheers!

 

[cjacek]

Daniel,

First of all, nice set of pipes you have there!

Memories of Elvis to be sure!

About the mystery noise; It sounds like a drop out to me on the original tape but it's hard to know for sure without seeing your meters move on the individual vocal track.

Do they dip down during the stuttering of the sound at all? I realize that it is quite momentary in duration.

My best suggestion is to try to redo your vocal just in that passage area on another un-used track to see if the oxide drop out goes right across the width of the tape or just on that channel.

If you can successfully repeat that one line of lyrics on another track and level match it well on mix-down, you should be able to just turn off the bad channel, simultaneously turning on the good on and again at the tail of line and problem solved.

Very impressive sound quality on the recording too!

I am impressed.

Cheers!

Thanks for the prompt response, help and kind words! Really appreciate it Jeff! Yeah, I got tired of doing vocals to karaoke backing tracks and got hooked playing a REAL piano! Dave (A Reel Person ) was "instrumental" (no pun intended) in getting me started on the whole piano thing ... What you're hearing is Dave's advice re basic piano playing, just to put my voice to. I'm also gonna have a HELL of a time putting a vocal on another track, as per what you suggest, as I did the singing + piano "live" without any overdubbing. Damn, it's hard to play and sing at the same time!

Anyway, I'll check the tape and report back but could a drop-out be THAT severe ?

Thanks!

Daniel

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Drop outs can be that severe and worse too!

It's basically a lack of oxide coating on the tape and can happen in completely random spots ranging from a minor dip to an all out dead spot with no sound at all.

One of the benefits of larger format, open reel recording is that these effects are minimized at 15 ips compared to 3.75 ips.

What is a sink hole to a cassette is but a pebble on the road to open reel at pro speeds.

Which tape brand was it that you did this track on?

 

[Beck]

Sounds like a dust particle or dropout in the tape itself. I used to own a 244, and still have a 246. These are very sensitive to dust and hair particles for the reasons Ghost outlined -- low speed and narrow track width.

I started vacuuming and using compressed air before recording sessions many years back. An eyelash or something like that can ruin a good session.

I would also highly recommend TDK SA-60 cassettes, which have a case designed to minimize static, and have the lowest dropout rate in my experience.

A demagnetizer is also a must have. If you have a tape path that has never been degaussed that can also cause dips, usually in higher frequencies.

 

[DigitalSmigital]

Hey, Daniel!

Cool vocal track there!

In my experience, it's not too difficult to match the levels of the original track when "punching in" to fix a blurb, but pay special attention to the eq, that will call the listener's attention to the gaffe. At least you have mutiple tracks left to experiment on before you decide on the best fix to use.

Good luck!

 

[cjacek]

Drop outs can be that severe and worse too!

It's basically a lack of oxide coating on the tape and can happen in completely random spots ranging from a minor dip to an all out dead spot with no sound at all.

One of the benefits of larger format, open reel recording is that these effects are minimized at 15 ips compared to 3.75 ips.

What is a sink hole to a cassette is but a pebble on the road to open reel at pro speeds.

Which tape brand was it that you did this track on?

Yeah, on occassion, I've had even worse dropouts so I see what you mean. I always thought it was non-tape related, a mechanical/electrical prob, but now I know.

I hadn't had the chance to do the tests you recommended, yet, but the tapes I've been using are "EMTEC" (type II), Maxell type II (their "studio" cassette) and Fuji type II (Z-II I think). This particular track was recorded on the Maxell MS-60. The EMTEC had even worse dropouts.

Thanks!

Daniel

 

[cjacek]

Sounds like a dust particle or dropout in the tape itself. I used to own a 244, and still have a 246. These are very sensitive to dust and hair particles for the reasons Ghost outlined -- low speed and narrow track width.

I started vacuuming and using compressed air before recording sessions many years back. An eyelash or something like that can ruin a good session.

I would also highly recommend TDK SA-60 cassettes, which have a case designed to minimize static, and have the lowest dropout rate in my experience.

A demagnetizer is also a must have. If you have a tape path that has never been degaussed that can also cause dips, usually in higher frequencies.

Will DEFINITELY take this advice. Thanks! I'll switch to the TDK SA-60, get a demager, clean and will look out for "particles". Thanks!!

Daniel

 

[cjacek]

Re: Hey, Daniel!

Cool vocal track there!

In my experience, it's not too difficult to match the levels of the original track when "punching in" to fix a blurb, but pay special attention to the eq, that will call the listener's attention to the gaffe. At least you have mutiple tracks left to experiment on before you decide on the best fix to use.

Good luck!

Thank you my friend! Yeah, I'll try to do just what you recommend and post my results again.

Thanks!

Daniel

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Yup... definitely a drop-out - I recognize the sound characterisic.

Nice Elvis-esque voice but you got some issues happening on the vocals -- maybe some reflections interfering with the direct sound the mic is picking up.

For one - they sound boxy and constricted , and second - sounds like comb-filtering artifacts causing a phasey, washy sound in a number of spots.

Some decent ambience around both the piano and the vocal tracks wouldn't hurt either....

 

[cjacek]

Yup... definitely a drop-out - I recognize the sound characterisic.

Nice Elvis-esque voice but you got some issues happening on the vocals -- maybe some reflections interfering with the direct sound the mic is picking up.

For one - they sound boxy and constricted , and second - sounds like comb-filtering artifacts causing a phasey, washy sound in a number of spots.

Some decent ambience around both the piano and the vocal tracks wouldn't hurt either....

Thanks!

I'm not quite sure what you mean by some of your terms like "phasey", "boxy", "artifacts" etc ...

I basically recorded in a small bedroom with an upright piano. I used a dynamic omni mic - the EV 635a to be exact - about 12" from my mouth. Mind you that I only used 1 mic to pick up both my voice and piano. I recorded straight into my 244 with a tiny bit of compression. Perhaps it is the room sound that you're hearing that is the problem ? Yeah, I know, it's a terribly sounding space but I can't do anything about it. Perhaps if I'd switch over to the sm-57 which isolates the sounds source better (voice) and bring it in about 6" infront of my mouth ? That certainly would help take the "reflections" out, wouldn't it ? What about the "boxy" sound ? Would adding a bit of delay or echo help ?

Thanks for your reply

Daniel

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Daniel,

Changing the microphone may help to cut down on the room's signature of sound and would be easier and cheaper then trying to cover all the walls with acoustic tiles and treatments to deaden the room completely, which is the normal route to take with a poor acoustic environment to work in.

With a dead room, you can add digital reverberation after the fact to get the right room sound. That's what I do in my studio at least and once in a while, I come up with decent results.

Cheers!

 

[cjacek]

Daniel,

Changing the microphone may help to cut down on the room's signature of sound and would be easier and cheaper then trying to cover all the walls with acoustic tiles and treatments to deaden the room completely, which is the normal route to take with a poor acoustic environment to work in.

With a dead room, you can add digital reverberation after the fact to get the right room sound. That's what I do in my studio at least and once in a while, I come up with decent results.

Cheers!

Yeah, I thought so too, Jeff .. Thanks!

I'm currently experimenting with the sm-57 about 6" away and am getting, what I perceive as, better results! Am also trying out the TDK SM-60's and will see if it helps. I'll post the results again in a short while, perhaps with some 50's delay/echo added Thanks

Daniel

 

[cjacek]

TDK SA-60's RULE!!!!

Ok, guys .. I can't believe that a simple $3 cassette changed my recording for the better! (Thanks Beck! ). I recorded about 3 full songs (3/4 of the tape) and not one, NOT ONE dropout of any magnitude! I even pushed the meters over 0db occassionally. I thought this can't be ... I used to count on getting dropouts every minute of a song. Now, there is none! I tried EMTEC CEII, Fuji ZII (very expensive), Maxell XL-II and Maxell MS-60 (studio vers and very costly). All of these sound similar, even the TDK sounds as good as those, BUT the TDK has NO DROPOUTS!!!!!!! OK ??? The others DO! Also, the others leave oxide on the heads very easily but the TDK doesn't. Still, I clean of course . Anyway, thanks for the great feedback and help and I'll be posting my next version here shortly. So, for any newbie reading this I say use only TDK. Forget the others!

Daniel