Is a mic preamp worth it?

[ecc83]

You've just reminded me--in the bottom of my mic box I have an old D202 I used to like a lot--but it suddenly lost all output.

I had a quick look to see if I could get inside to have a look and fix the (assumed) broken solder joint but couldn't see an obvious way in and didn't want to do more damage in a cack handed attempt. Since then, out of sight, out of mind took over and I haven't touched it.

Anyone know how to get inside a D202 without breaking anything in the process?

Found this B...


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« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2006, 08:40:39 PM »
I have five of these mics (D-202e), but its been at least five years since any of them has needed any work, so this is written entirely from memory.

Its a dynamic mic, so basically its much less complicated than a condenser (which needs impedance changing circuitry). If the capsules are not damaged, then the problem is most likely a connection problem internally.

As I recall, the capsules are mounted on a central rod which runs down to the base of the mic. Loosening a nut on the rod will allow the capsule / circuit assembly to come out the front of the mic body.

To get into it, you have to remove the XLR connector, and then the chrome "fin" piece which holds (or is) the rear entry ports.

DO NOT twist the XLR or fin section while removing. My recollection is that it is easy to break the wires from the circuit card to the connector by twisting them.

As you disassemble it, note that the fin section includes a switch for bass roll off. You may find a wire break right there - maybe caused accidentally by an earlier owner. If so, fix it and reassemble the tail without taking out the capsule / circuit assembly and recheck it. If its working, great.

If there is no break at the switch, take out the capsule assembly carefully and study it. It is only two dynamic capsules and one or two choke coils (on a circuit card), so there can't be much complicated wiring. If the bass isn't working, follow its leads from the capsule to the circuit card and make sure everything is connected (no cold joints)

There really isn't much to go wrong there, so you are probably going to find a bad connection somewhere in the system.

Cordially,
Tom (remember, I haven't had one of these open for many years)

Dave.

 

[Bobbsy]

Great! Thanks Dave!

I've just been looking at the mic and realise that one of the problems I had way back when is that the screw head on the XLR assembly is stripped (the mic was old and second hand when I got it--but now that I'm retired I have more time to work on such things.

I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[grimtraveller]

I have an old D202 I used to like a lot--but it suddenly lost all output.

Better mics.

DO NOT twist the XLR or fin section while removing. My recollection is that it is easy to break the wires from the circuit card to the connector by twisting them

Better mics.

The most revealing comments came from Lynn Fuston

"Better mics".

Can anyone tell me the meaning of life or something profound that will give my life meaning

?

Better mics.

I have a dream......better mics !

 

[Lt. Bob]

what is the answer to life, the universe and everything?

"umm ...42 .. better mics?"

 

[nsureit]

All I know is that the preamps in my new Focusrite interface sound better "to me" than the ones in my older Presonus interface. I use some good to high end mics.

 

[WhiteStrat]

Let's get this thread back on track and talk about Mic Pres and White Strat's proposed test runs. Puh-leeeease.

Thanks ya'll.

Sorry gang, my proposed test is off. The test was based on me acquiring the equipment from a recording studio/vocal booth used by a company that contracted with me. I spent today in that studio meeting the vocal talent and discussing the transition with them. I got there a little bit early to scope out the setup (it's been 3 years since I've been in there), and the cool gear has been swapped out! The mic is still very cool--a vintage Shure SM5B (but not the RCA 77D they used to have--they traded out with the studio that originally sold them the RCA). The truly painful part is that the preamp--the UA 6176 is gone as well. Yep, they traded it back to the same studio. They're now going directly into a Mackie mixer, then into a Urei limiter and a Urei EQ unit. I'm happy to have the Urei's, but I'm sad that the UA is gone.

In any case, I did a run through with the voice talent (4 voices--female English, female French, male English, and male Spanish) this morning, and I have to say--the vintage Shure is very sweet. I never punched in the EQ, but the limiter was way cool. (Sorry--my first experience with a non-software limiter of this caliber.) I'm looking forward to taking over this operation and acquiring this gear, but the central piece--the UA preamp--is off the table.

Oh well...

 

[Todzilla]

My philosophy is: the further you get in the signal chain from the room, instrument and player, the less important.

In order of declining importance:

1) Player
2) Instrument
3) Room
4) Mic
5) Preamp
6) AD conversion
7) DAW

and then somewhere hovering above all these is Monitoring.

 

[bal2130]

I was wondering, at what price range of audio interfaces do you not really need a preamp unless it is to color the sound. I have an akai eie pro and don't love it so would upgrading to a focusrite scarlett 18i20 be a better uprade than buying a $3-400 preamp to go with the akai? I have some pretty decent mics and room treatment.

 

[miroslav]

Just for clarification (since some folks are not even sure if they need a preamp)....any converter interface that allows you to plug a mic directly into it....has a built in preamp already.

Personally, I don't think a lot of the inexpensive all-in-on interfaces full of options, features and preamps are going to deliver the same results as standalone converters/preamps/EQ/etc hooked up together.....but that's something everyone has to decide for themselves, though I know for the average Joe, budget and convenience are always the main concerns, and they often outweigh other considerations.

My view with any signal is always about the whole "chain"......so putting any greater importance on one element or another in a given signal chain isn't something I consciously ever do. If I'm getting a great sound out of a guitar and amp, I don't want to toss a crappy mic pr cable preamp or whatever into the signal chain and then hope/assume the great tones at the amp will carry through.
I always try to utilize the best I have, and that's how I purchase gear too....the best I can afford at a given moment relative to my financial situation. I've yet to feel "bad" or that I wasted my money buying better quality gear.

 

[Bobbsy]

I was wondering, at what price range of audio interfaces do you not really need a preamp unless it is to color the sound. I have an akai eie pro and don't love it so would upgrading to a focusrite scarlett 18i20 be a better uprade than buying a $3-400 preamp to go with the akai? I have some pretty decent mics and room treatment.

That's an impossible question to answer. There's no magic number where $250 interfaces need an external pre amp while $300 ones don't.

Frankly, once you get above the real bottom feeders, most interfaces have pretty good pre amps these days. By pretty good I mean not badly noisy and not colouring the sound much. I've no personal experience of the Akai interface but, from what I've heard, the pre-amps are in the "pretty good" category. Therefore it's hard to say a $300 pre-amp will be better. However it may be "different". Whether it's different in a direction you like or one you don't like is down to your subjective appraisal I'm afraid.

The first thing you have to do is decide why you "don't love" your sound with your present set up. (I've never "loved" a pre amp--it's part of the chain Miroslav mentioned but, barring a desire to add a specific colour, not a major issue for me.) Anyhow, once you've sat down and analysed what differences you want to your sound then you can research whether it's a pre amp--or different microphone--or more acoustic treatment--or any of a million other things you can try.

Of course, there's always the possibility that your sound is actually good but your gear acquisition syndrome has flared up again. Alas, if that's the case the cure will almost always be expensive!

 

[ecc83]

I was wondering, at what price range of audio interfaces do you not really need a preamp unless it is to color the sound. I have an akai eie pro and don't love it so would upgrading to a focusrite scarlett 18i20 be a better uprade than buying a $3-400 preamp to go with the akai? I have some pretty decent mics and room treatment.

Akai EIE Pro

That ^ review suggest that there is little intrinsically wrong with the EIE?
For sure you are getting 4 mic amps for nearly the common AI price of two but as I said at the very start (I have even less hair now!) of this thread, very good pre amps cost peanuts for the actual components so unless you have a special requirement in a pre, VERY low noise, lot of gain for a distant ribbon say, I doubt any of the other AIs will be an improvement. As Bobbsy says, there are myriad factors you can blame/investigate before pre amps.

As an experiment you COULD look round for a second hand mixer (wash mah mouth out!)? a Soundcraft, A&H (unlikely, tend to be keepers) are good but even the Behringers and Yamahas of the mixer world tend to have a bit more gain and lower noise than many AIs. They also have separate gain and level pots, EQ and pan as well as truly zero latency monitoring, aux/FX sends.....All in all, a modest AI and a modest mixer is a very versatile pair of beasts indeed!

Dave.