Introduction: My struggle with home recording

If I played a famous drum kit, it would still sound terrible. Exactly the same as saxophones, guitars, basses, anything! It’s how you play them that counts.
 
IHateHomeRecording said:
Bruh.

I haven't been working on this constantly, every day for two straight years. I first started tinkering with Studio One 2 years ago, and have gradually been learning it off and on, taking breakings, coming back to it, etc. since that time.

As for the samples. the first one here is probably the best mix I've done thus far. It's the intro to a instrumental I wrote called Spitting Nails. I actually wasn't a big fan of this song, so I haven't released it. It was too "thrash" for me. I'm going for more of a hair metal sound. But I kept this sample just to share to people for things like this:



These videos I made today. I was just tinkering with my Marshall amp trying to match Warren Demartini's Out of the Cellar guitar tone:



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I liked the Spitting Nails. You're a great player.
Here are my thoughts, for what they're worth:
There didn't seem to be enough high end on the guitar.
Secondly, I thought it lacked space. We heard a very immediate guitar, so maybe it needs a different reverb treatment.
I'm no great expert, but am on a similar journey to you. I'm still experimenting on all aspects of recording, trying
to get the best sound out of my guitars, drums, and keyboards.
I am sure we'll get there, so don't lose hope.
 
Spitting nails is awesome actually.

You can tell it's an amp sim, so dry and up front, I like the tone though, in my opinion if you mixed it in properly with the drums this would be all that's needed. You can boost high end, it wouldn't hurt as previously said but honestly I didn't mind it.

It is just that it is sitting on top of everything, drums need some work, but that's just a taste thing. Having the mix like you have it is fine too, it will translate, it's not harsh.

If you have a particular sound in your head that you want and you are unable to get there then this can make your attempt seem very sub par - But only to you! As I listen to it, with no reference and no idea what it is you are trying to go for, this is not too bad at all.

If you want a more realistic guitar tone then a mic or 2 in front of your guitar amp will just get you there with little effort. If you want to build in some depth then you can pull the mics further out, or add a room mic, or just use an impulse response (verb). This will just push the guitar back so it is not so dry/upfront. But most of the time, dry/upfront is what I aim for so I like what you have here. I would just push it back only because in context of your mix I feel like it would just gel a little better.

For spitting nails, I wouldn't play that part twice unless you had a lead guitar wailing at the same time, or a vocal. I'd keep it down the middle.

I wish I could play like you
 
JamEZmusic said:
If you want a more realistic guitar tone then a mic or 2 in front of your guitar amp will just get you there with little effort. If you want to build in some depth then you can pull the mics further out, or add a room mic, or just use an impulse response (verb). This will just push the guitar back so it is not so dry/upfront. But most of the time, dry/upfront is what I aim for so I like what you have here. I would just push it back only because in context of your mix I feel like it would just gel a little better.
Click to expand...
So you are saying like ambient style of reverb, not a wet plate or hall?
 
Home recording pro and cons. Relatively low cost of entry, pro. Steep learning curve, con. You end up artist, producer and engineer, this can be both a pro and con. I started out when home recording was a 4 track. We eventually moved up to an 8 track but was well aware of our limitation's vs a studio pro with 20 years of experience. We used our home set up as a scratch pad for ideas and when we got something we liked, we went into the studio.

Today there is always the option to let a more experienced engineer mix your best stuff. Find a pro with record label credentials. Many can and will offer advice as to what you could do to improve your tracks at the front end and I know some who offer sessions on how to improve your mixing skills. We pay for gear but somehow, paying for knowledge seems to have gotten out of vogue.
 
Reverb always does the same thing, pushes tracks back. If you want it to transparantly push back, .2 second decay room verb (i prefer algorithmic most times), if you want a verb to push back as an effect 2-4 second decay hall, plate whatever. In my experience settting an ambient verb up with early reflections only and short predelay to pull tracks back for depth is b/s. Any FX messes with depth. it's actually much more difficult to get FX blooming around a vocal while keeping the vocal up front and dry. It's like Chorus, it depends how it's used, I use it to push tracks back, and other times use it to pull a vocal forward. Use a lot of it to push a track back (makes the track less intelligible compared to a dry element), or use a little to make a vocal a little more stereo, adds suble frequencies fills in gaps, stereo = closer, brings a vocal a little step forward.

I have not figured out how people reckon they can use reverb to pull a track forward. My best guess is that they can just get away with a louder vocal and then use the verb again to make the vocal sit properly in the track again.

I'm still figuring this stuff out myself. But I am managing to get somewhat of a grasp on it now. It's a confusing topic, some use verbs to get low end, some use it to make instruments sustain longer, some to push tracks back, some to pull tracks forward (alledgedly), some to brighten a mix. A lot of this contradicts, and it's difficult wading through all of the b/s online.
 
JamEZmusic said:
Reverb always does the same thing, pushes tracks back. If you want it to transparantly push back, .2 second decay room verb .... it's actually much more difficult to get FX blooming around a vocal while keeping the vocal up front and dry. It's like Chorus, it depends how it's used, I use it to push tracks back, and other times use it to pull a vocal forward. Use a lot of it to push a track back (makes the track less intelligible compared to a dry element), or use a little to make a vocal a little more stereo, adds suble frequencies fills in gaps, stereo = closer, brings a vocal a little step forward.

I have not figured out how people reckon they can use reverb to pull a track forward. My best guess is that they can just get away with a louder vocal and then use the verb again to make the vocal sit properly in the track again.
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Would you ever set up the mix like a football field, and have the limiters set lines of scrimmage with volume levels? That would set hard boundaries in the mix hopefully separating and making space in the tracks. Space to go back and forth in.
 
LazerBeakShiek said:
I see it as 'all pro'. Knowledge is power. That particular trifecta makes you dangerous.
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I've worked with a number of artists that have tried to do it all and felt somethings always suffer in the end. Many just want to focus on their craft and find the learning curve is daunting. I'll add that a producer/engineer with a lot of experience can be invaluable. If you can eventually make it all work for you, more power to you. Many find it helpful to use studio professionals as part of the learning process.

Or you can bang your head against the wall while trying to figure it all out. I learned a ton in every session I paid for early on. You've got plenty of posts where you express your frustrations on working particular issues out. Imagine for around $75 an hour, being able to consult with someone that can short cut that knowledge base. Would it have value? I imagine the answer will depend on the purpose behind what you do. I used to work with touring, signed artists whose career is music. How of us home recording folks are in the same category? Like with music, you learn the standards first. Virtuosity comes after you mastered standards to the point where you can deviate from it.
 
I only use limiters to take care of stray transients, or to aggressively control those peaks in a vocal (pre-compressor) with more natural settings. My limiter is reducing 2-4db quite steadily, occasionally can hit like 8 or 9db on a nasty spike.

I don't think a limiter is the right tool for the job to control volume (Edit: Perceived volume I mean't!). There has been times when I had my snare drum sounding the right level in the mix but spiking out all over the place, so using a limiter with like 6db of limiting, there was no percievable volume difference and the snare only changed tonally a little, and actually glued into the track lovely. 6db is a lot. I mean you would never get away with a regular track being 6 db out. A compressor wouldn't work because it has an attack time and none would react fast enough, saturation changed the tone of the drum too much because I was working to a reference, so heavy limiting was the answer.

I use limiters all over the place, more so in the mix than on the master. I have started setting up a meter at the end of my mix chain and having a target lufs, I'll pull back the track on a pre-master fader until I hit that target lufs, I normally have around 6-8dbs of headroom on the master after this. I got sick of having tracks that would vary wildly in volume from song to song, OR from youtube video to song. Even from alexa to song. Volume knob stays untouched mostly now. If I was uploading to a streaming service I would aim a little higher than -14lufs because I am unsure how the streaming service would react to a quieter song. My point being that I don't use a limiter on the master unless I am trying to squeeze a track for another free db or 2. I might have it engaged for safety but if i am limiting at 0db then it might only be like 1 transient throughout the song, but then I turn down the song again to -14lufs or whatever leaving me that 6-8db of headroom again. I just do it before youtube, or soundcloud does it for me so I don't have to keep messing with volume knobs at home when listening offline.

I am not mixing clients songs. I mess with my own stuff, music is a hobby, audio engineering is my job. (Broadcast) So I don't care about giving tracks over to a client at 0bdfs peaks -7lufs or whatever.

I would never use a limiter to control a mix balance choice though, my limiters are usually used quite early on near the beginning of the mix, as a lazy way of controlling a nasty spike, or slamming a bass or vocal

I don't master really, i just mix as best I can
 
JamEZmusic said:
I have not figured out how people reckon they can use reverb to pull a track forward. My best guess is that they can just get away with a louder vocal and then use the verb again to make the vocal sit properly in the track again.
Click to expand...
Short pre-delay pushes stuff back, longer pre-delay (try 18 -24 msec) brings it forward
 
Folkcafe said:
I learned a ton in every session I paid for early on. You've got plenty of posts where you express your frustrations on working particular issues out. Imagine for around $75 an hour, being able to consult with someone that can short cut that knowledge base. Would it have value?
Click to expand...
The knowledge should be free. Discussing the techniques used in a song only heightens our appreciation of it. Money should NOT be the limit or obstacle, only your minds ability to understand..
 
LazerBeakShiek said:
The knowledge should be free. Discussing the techniques used in a song only heightens our appreciation of it. Money should NOT be the limit or obstacle, only your minds ability to understand..
Click to expand...
Let's see how far that "knowledge should be free" theorem takes us. Say I want to be a neurosurgeon? I should be able to just walk into Harvard Medical School and say teach me? For free? No prerequisites like prior education or aptitude? No limits at all? Free college for all? How do we pick and choose who gets in. Everyone? Any degree you want?

UMass Lowell has a recording arts program. When I sent my daughter there for her business degree a few years back it cost me $32k per year with dorm and meals. She also had a dean scholarship along with some others that offset the cost. 4 year degree in recording arts would be pretty pricy. I've worked with a number of grads of this program. Instructors are good but not at the top of the industry but it will give you a good foundation. Those few who ended up working a studio career still had to put in a lot of time to get a deeper practical knowledge base.

My previous work offered me unique opportunities. I spent a number of days at Bob Ludwig's Gateway Mastering studio shortly after he opened. I got to discuss with him and his engineering team about many of the technical hurdles they encountered and how they were solved. This is a studio at the pinnacle of the industry and was at the forefront of the technology of the day. In a matter of days, I learned more than could have from months of research. The kind of stuff you're not going to find in books.

When all knowledge is free, will it cease to have value? I think I get part of what you are saying. It's like when Gutenberg came out with the printing press, it removed gatekeepers of knowledge. The internet is kind of like that. We often search and find answers that still requires some form of demonstration for us to fully understand and implement. Some can search for an answer and figure out how to execute it on their own. What if I can't? So, I know a guy that has this knowledge. Does his time and knowledge not have any value? Can I compel him to just give me what he knows?

I'll be interested if you think I can compel you to take the time to tell me everything you know. Or just how far this free thing goes.
 
Islands in the stream
That is what we are
No one in between
How can we be wrong
Sail away with me to another world
Where we rely on each other uh huh

We'll ride it together uh huh..
 
Folkcafe said:
I'll be interested if you think...
Click to expand...

I have a fear ...what if there was something I missed...something 'not in the plan' ...always it's in the back of my mind...what don't I know...It terrifies me. There must be something BIG I missed..

Like, I had a compressor and a limiter in my mains FX window. It turns out that might not be correct. i was doing that for 6 months..I get it before or after I buy something, too.

All I need is a few answers in Q n A fashion.
Shouldn't need to pay tuition to talk shop with the boys.
 
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Slouching Raymond said:
I liked the Spitting Nails. You're a great player.
Here are my thoughts, for what they're worth:
There didn't seem to be enough high end on the guitar.
Secondly, I thought it lacked space. We heard a very immediate guitar, so maybe it needs a different reverb treatment.
I'm no great expert, but am on a similar journey to you. I'm still experimenting on all aspects of recording, trying
to get the best sound out of my guitars, drums, and keyboards.
I am sure we'll get there, so don't lose hope.
Click to expand...
JamEZmusic said:
Spitting nails is awesome actually.

You can tell it's an amp sim, so dry and up front, I like the tone though, in my opinion if you mixed it in properly with the drums this would be all that's needed. You can boost high end, it wouldn't hurt as previously said but honestly I didn't mind it.

It is just that it is sitting on top of everything, drums need some work, but that's just a taste thing. Having the mix like you have it is fine too, it will translate, it's not harsh.

If you have a particular sound in your head that you want and you are unable to get there then this can make your attempt seem very sub par - But only to you! As I listen to it, with no reference and no idea what it is you are trying to go for, this is not too bad at all.

If you want a more realistic guitar tone then a mic or 2 in front of your guitar amp will just get you there with little effort. If you want to build in some depth then you can pull the mics further out, or add a room mic, or just use an impulse response (verb). This will just push the guitar back so it is not so dry/upfront. But most of the time, dry/upfront is what I aim for so I like what you have here. I would just push it back only because in context of your mix I feel like it would just gel a little better.

For spitting nails, I wouldn't play that part twice unless you had a lead guitar wailing at the same time, or a vocal. I'd keep it down the middle.

I wish I could play like you
Click to expand...

Thank you guys for the compliments. That means a lot. I think the riff is good, it's just not the style I'm going for. It was too "thrash". I'm trying to sound more light, "sunset strip" 80s metal kind of like Poison, Dokken, Ratt... It's a more loose, and "party hardy" kind of sound.

I also agree about the guitar. It's a copy/paste of the same track panned left/right, so it's essentially mono. Something I didn't know until someone in this thread pointed that out. It would be less up front if done with two separate performances and hard panned. I think I'm going to work with that riff again and maybe try to play a bit looser and sustain the notes a bit longer to maybe "hair" it up a bit.
 
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