importance of multiple overhead mics

Frank Costanza will rent the hotel room next to hers and perform the sordid invasion of privacy, then leave memory sticks for everyone under the Festivus pole.
 
Bubba po said:
And did it come to pass that the veil of the parcel tape was rent in twain? And didst thou look upon the pair of AKG C1000S and see that they were good?
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In fact, it was rent. It was rent both in twain and asunder, leaving two distinct moiety. I did gaze upon the AKGs with mine eyes. It was upon rushing to hook them up and hammer out and record some thrash, upon completion of these things that I did then listen to what had been recorded in thine mixer. And I heard that it was good. And I cursed thine indecisiveness and tendency to procrastinate that led to thou putting off buying decent mics for so long.
 
Quick question... I used the OHTF setup. One of the overhead tracks is louder than the other, likely due to relative position of mics with relation to the drum kit. Not a lot louder, but enough to notice when I wore headphones. Do you even the two OH tracks out at all if one is louder than the other, or just leave them alone?
 
Stuff like that is why I don't like ORTF or X-Y. They give a natural image of the kit, but it can be skewed if you want the kick and snare centered like most normal people do.

Think of your kit as two halves. Imagine a line connecting the kick's beater contact spot and the center of the snare head. That's your center line. Adjust the left and right mics accordingly.
 
Thanks for the info, guys.

Here's my first recording with stereo overheads- a cover of Suicidal Tendencies' "Memories of Tomorrow". Lots of cymbals.

I had planned to make a sample of the same thing with the old mono and then the new stereo, but I was pressed for time earlier, and when I returned, I just wanted to get the shit working. If you want to know the difference that the overheads alone made, I somewhat shamefully offer this cover of "Heartbeat City" that I did last night once I got home and couldn't even walk straight. Like everyone else in the world I have a Cars Greatest Hits CD laying around somewhere, and I always thought this song had a great riff. The problem is the whole song is synthesizer. That's just terrible. Even with the pisspoor drumming, my version is better than the original because it has freaking guitars instead. Anyway, the exact same mics, mic positions, etc were used for the recording of Heartbeat City that were in effect for Memories of Tomorrow- only difference was a mono overhead. Memories of tomorrow has a pair of C1000s.

Keep in mind I have NO experience with these overheads, so their positions could be shitty.

https://soundcloud.com/user92696274096/memories-of-tomorrow/s-Of2Rg

https://soundcloud.com/user92696274096/heartbeat-city/s-fqT0y
 
Lol. That cover is too spastic to get a read on the stereo configuration.

Try this, put up a clip of just the overhead tracks panned exactly as you have them in the cover. I wanna see how the snare sits and what the tom spread is in just the overheads.
 
Greg_L said:
Lol. That cover is too spastic to get a read on the stereo configuration.

Try this, put up a clip of just the overhead tracks panned exactly as you have them in the cover. I wanna see how the snare sits and what the tom spread is in just the overheads.
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Here you go. Just each overhead track, one panned all the way left, the other right. One was a little louder than the other, so I evened it out (just as in the finished song version).

https://soundcloud.com/user92696274096/song-0055/s-ce8mS
 
Greg_L said:
Stuff like that is why I don't like ORTF or X-Y. They give a natural image of the kit, but it can be skewed if you want the kick and snare centered like most normal people do.

Think of your kit as two halves. Imagine a line connecting the kick's beater contact spot and the center of the snare head. That's your center line. Adjust the left and right mics accordingly.
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That's why I do this:

drums-xy-angle.jpg

Snare is centered, kick hardly gets into the overheads so it doesn't matter, hats are pretty close to center (but a close mic can change that), cymbals are spread but not drastically wide, toms are spread somewhat but close mics can move them a bit if desired.
 
NotThatBright said:
Here you go. Just each overhead track, one panned all the way left, the other right. One was a little louder than the other, so I evened it out (just as in the finished song version).

https://soundcloud.com/user92696274096/song-0055/s-ce8mS
Click to expand...

Okay, you hear how the snare is leaning to the right? And how it kind of sounds thin with a faint echo? None of that is good. You've got some imbalance and phasing going on.

Look at the illustration bouldersoundguy just posted. Think of your kit like that and set the mics accordingly. Do everything you can to keep the snare centered. Treat the kit as two halves and measure, if you have to, from the center of the snare to each overhead mic. It should be as close as you can get to the exact same measurement. Some people will say "the snare doesn't have to be centered blah blah blah". Fuck them, they're wrong.
 
Greg_L said:
Okay, you hear how the snare is leaning to the right? And how it kind of sounds thin with a faint echo? None of that is good. You've got some imbalance and phasing going on.

Look at the illustration bouldersoundguy just posted. Think of your kit like that and set the mics accordingly. Do everything you can to keep the snare centered. Treat the kit as two halves and measure, if you have to, from the center of the snare to each overhead mic. It should be as close as you can get to the exact same measurement. Some people will say "the snare doesn't have to be centered blah blah blah". Fuck them, they're wrong.
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Ok. I'll see if I can get it more ironed out tomorrow. I was delighted with how much better it sounded than the mono setup, but I knew there was no way I set it up "perfect", so to speak. If you were to throw an arbitrary number on it based on the results and say I was getting X% of all the sound quality I could get from this ORTF setup, then X% of stereo still beats the shit out of what I had. Of course, a pair of $200 condensers vs. the SM57 I used for the mono before... I'm sure the quality of mics also makes a difference.

Thanks for steering me the right way again.
 
NTB, were you inebriated while recording this? I think you're stretching my affection for things slightly shambolic to near breaking point! That sounds like a blind man building a shed; like somebody watching in horror as his drumkit tumbles down a stairwell! Come on, man! :D
 
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