Identifying Phase Issues

[batterista]

Does anyone know if there's a clip somewhere where I can hear before fixing/after fixing phase issues on drum overheads? I'm new to home recording and want to know what I'm listening for. Thanks!

 

[batterista]

Oh, and I'm recording drums in a room w/ hardwood floors, etc... 10' high ceilings, and about 15' X 20' room, one end opens to a dining room. Should I try recorderman set-up, or something wider and more open to start with? I know how to tune drums

 

[RAMI]

You're listening for lack of bass/fullness, and/or an askew stereo image where it just doesn't sound right.

As far as whether to use Recorderman, Glyn Johns, or any other micing configuration, that doesn't depend on the room so much. Experiment and see what works best for you.

 

[batterista]

Thanks RAMI.

 

[89gtsleeper]

I don't have any examples, but if you're using something to record where you can see the waveforms of the tracks up close, you can manually move the tracks around to cause them to be out of phase... example, do individual hits of your snare, then kick being recorded by only two overheads... you have two tracks. Copy each track so you have two pairs of the same thing. Look at the waveforms on the first pair... when the wave hits its high peak on one, manually move the second so the peak hits down at the same time. Then AB your two sets of tracks.

 

[batterista]

Thanks 89gtsleeper. I'm recording on a Tascam 388 analog 8-track reel to reel, so I won't be able to do that. I'll get it right as I go.

 

[xistance]

I'm recording on a Tascam 388 analog 8-track reel to reel, so I won't be able to do that. I'll get it right as I go.

you can alway use your ears - play the stereo track in mono and if it's out, there'll be next to nothing to ear.
Oh, Things like Sonar make life easy - each track have a reverse phase button....alot of desks do to.

 

[Supercreep]

Post it in the MP3 Clinic. Somebody will tell you about it.

I've got into the habit of phase-aligning my overheads and room mics to the snare visually in Sonar. As much as pres or mics is has made a tremendous improvement to the sound. Greg_L turned me on to the idea.

 

[royalt213]

I've got into the habit of phase-aligning my overheads and room mics to the snare visually in Sonar. As much as pres or mics is has made a tremendous improvement to the sound. Greg_L turned me on to the idea.

I'm recording drums and I'm doing it with Sonar. Do you have any more info on doing this "visually in Sonar"? That would be spectacular.

 

[Paulz]

I decided to do an A/B comparison for myself, since I wasn't too sure what to listen for either. I took a snippet from a song where I had used the recorderman method. Then phase reversed one of the overheads. If anyone is interested, I've uploaded the 30sec clip here:

It starts off in phase, then goes out, then back in phase, then out once again. Its .. shockingly.. obvious when it shifts. Of course this is an extreme case when the overheads go completely out of phase.

 

[Greg_L]

I decided to do an A/B comparison for myself, since I wasn't too sure what to listen for either. I took a snippet from a song where I had used the recorderman method. Then phase reversed one of the overheads. If anyone is interested, I've uploaded the 30sec clip here:

It starts off in phase, then goes out, then back in phase, then out once again. Its .. shockingly.. obvious when it shifts. Of course this is an extreme case when the overheads go completely out of phase.

When are your overheads gonna be shockingly out of phase unless you're a total numbnut? Nice effort but that test kind of misses the point.

A better exercise would be to have it just slightly out of phase so you can hear the difference. That's what I hear most often. Slightly out of phase so the snare sounds off center or washy.

 

[mixsit]

..A better exercise would be to have it just slightly out of phase so you can hear the difference. That's what I hear most often. Slightly out of phase so the snare sounds off center or washy.

Just to add- A phase effect in the horizontal is the Haas pan/precedence effect- Equal volume but unequal distance (a few inches, about .5 ms dif) is all it takes to pull the image over', (thus the 'string/measure to snare thing between O/Hs.
The combing effects of o/h and close mic are a constant in multi-micing. (You can time align for two points in space but not for additional points..)
To hear that effect, place your close and far mic, shift one and listen to the tone change. Pick the preferred slightly out of phase combos!

 

[Dogbreath]

I've got into the habit of phase-aligning my overheads and room mics to the snare visually in Sonar. As much as pres or mics is has made a tremendous improvement to the sound. Greg_L turned me on to the idea.

Pardon my noobness... but are you talking about lining up the waveforms?
Takin the OH's (and room if ya use it) and nudgin em to match the snare?

?