I would be horoned to mix a song 4 any1 here on the forums

  • Thread starter Thread starter Killah_Trakz
  • Start date Start date
OK, sorry, you were talking to somebody else. My mistake. :)

G.
 
For me to call it MUSIC...there has to be some instruments!
MOST ..not all....Rap/Hip-hop does not have a damn musical instrument in there whole entire peice...all synths or computer generated beats does not classify as MUSIC to me!
 
Markaholic said:
For me to call it MUSIC...there has to be some instruments!
MOST ..not all....Rap/Hip-hop does not have a damn musical instrument in there whole entire peice...all synths or computer generated beats does not classify as MUSIC to me!
Click to expand...

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. I've heard some absolutely stunning music that was all synths.
 
High Definition

I have nothing against hip hop or rap in general. It's not my personal cup of audio tea, but I have nothing against it as an art form.

I compare it very much akin to the beat poetry of the 50s; counterculture lyrics that paint pictures of the lives and thoughts of the disenchanted or disadvantaged, backed by simple rhythms and beats. Where the beatniks wore black turtlenecks and berets and accompanied themselves with a pair of bongos or a few lonely sax bleats, the hip hoppers wear hip-rider pants and sideways baseball caps and accompany themselves with simple synth beats and scratches.

For these reasons I personally refer to hip hop as "street poetry".

However, in all objectivity, does much of it fall within the definition of "music", literally and technically speaking? If a production has no melody, no harmony and no chord progression (and sometimes - but not always - no musical key), technically speaking is it "music"? Is rhythm alone enough to fit that definition?

Just asking a legitimite question that I think could spark some good honest responses. I'm not dissing 'hop; just asking for a definition of music vs. poetry and offering the "street poetry" as a modern form of "beat poetry" as my idea of what hip hop actually is.

G.
 
For me to call it MUSIC...there has to be some instruments!
Click to expand...
What about the human voice? So you don't consider acapella singing to be music?
 
From Merriam Webster Online...

Main Entry: mu·sic
Pronunciation: 'myü-zik
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Middle English musik, from Old French musique, from Latin musica, from Greek mousikE any art presided over by the Muses, especially music, from feminine of mousikos of the Muses, from Mousa Muse
1 a : the science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity b : vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony
 
A capella is indeed music. It contains melody, harmonies, chord changes and key signatures. It is as music as music can get. ;)

G.
 
bdemenil said:
From Merriam Webster Online...

the science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity b : vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony
Click to expand...
Well, according to that, one could interpret that 2nd definition to imply thht one need only have rhythm to be considered music. By that definition, William Shakespeare's prose written with an iambic pentameter rhythm would fall under the definition of music.

G.
 
Personally, I think rhythm/timing is the most essential aspect of music. Plenty of that in Hip-Hop.
 
bdemenil said:
Personally, I think rhythm/timing is the most essential aspect of music. Plenty of that in Hip-Hop.
Click to expand...
While rhythm may be an important, maybe even essential part of music, is that alone enough to define something as music? Poetry has rhythm, but we don't refer to it as music. We refer to it as poetry because it is lacking other "musical" qualities (for want of a better term).

G.
 
Besides, Hip-Hop does have melody - usually very simple, but simple does not equal bad.
 
While rhythm may be an important, maybe even essential part of music, is that alone enough to define something as music? Poetry has rhythm, but we don't refer to it as music. We refer to it as poetry because it is lacking other "musical" qualities (for want of a better term).
Click to expand...
If the poetry is actually spoken in time - yeah, I think you can call that music. If it's written on a page, or spoken out of time, well....

I'd certainly consider drumming to be music - tap dancing also.
 
of course hip hop is music....the quote that says it isn't sounds like something an old person in the 50s would have said about rock n roll.


"In MY day, people didn't yell and writhe around so much! It wasn't so LOUD. The kids dance like they're FORNICATING....."


and so on.
 
bdemenil said:
If the poetry is actually spoken in time - yeah, I think you can call that music. If it's written on a page, or spoken out of time, well....

I'd certainly consider drumming to be music - tap dancing also.
Click to expand...
Well, I guess in a way music is in the ears of the beholder. I'd consider the sounds of nature "music" in it's own right. But that's not quite what I'm talking about here. The fact is that not even I refer to those sounds as "music", I refer to them as "the sounds of nature", even if they have a musical quality to them.

As far as your contention that spoken poetry can be called music, I don't disagree. Hell, you could call a dripping faucet music if you like. Whatever floats your boat. But I'll bet you my own eyeballs that you have never actually referred to a poetry recital, a dripping faucet or even tap dancing as "music", and that in your day-to-day processes, you file thouse sounds away in a different folder than you do "music". While the definition of music can be defensively stretched to include any of those things, in actual practice 99.99% of us, if asked outside of the context of this discussion, would not classify *any* of those sounds under the category of music. You know in your heart that's true, ad that you're just making that stretch here as part of a defense of hip hop.

But there's no need to defend from me. I'm not attacking. I respect hip hop as an art form just as much as I respect poetry and tap dancing (and FAR more than I respect dripping faucets :D). All, I'm trying to illuminate is that hip hop at best straddles the edge if the common definition of the word "music" because the vast majority of the attributes that normally separate musical from non-musical sounds (silly little things like melody, harmony, chord progression and signature key) are missing from much of hip hop.

As to hip hop having melody, some of it does, yes. There are some hip hopers who blend hip hop with more traditional musical styles. But most of the pure hip hop does not. At best some of it *might* be defined as having a key. That definition being implied by the playing of the same note or chord over and over and over and over and over on a backing instrument, or perhaps by the root of the chord created by the combination of double-quadrupled vocals with each vocal track EQd to boost or cut a specific fundamental. But, outside of the rhythm, that's about as far into the jurisdiction of musical properties much of hip hop will travel.

And to the comment from the other guy that these are just the complaints of an old fogey complaining about rock n' roll; no this is entirely different. I'm not saying that hip hop sucks or that it's evil. I admit that I don't care to listen to it personally, that's true. But I also don't care for country or Tibetian throat singing that much either. That doen't make them bad or mean that I'm indicting them for being so. I'm just asking what is the definition of music in the common phyche and on what side of that definition does hip hop fall?

For me, at least country and throat singing (and gregorian chanting, and be bop, and I could go on) have the properties I mentioned that are normally attributed as belonging to music. Other than rhythm and the occasional implied key, core hip hop does not. For me, by definition, that causes hip hop to fall closer to the common category of poetry than it does to music. I'm not saying that's a bad thing; I don't think it is a bad thing. I'm just offering up the idea that it is what it is, and hoping for some inspired reactions beyond just "hip hop sucks" and "hip hop is da bomb" or "you suck" and "no, you suck more". ;)

G.
 
hip hop at best straddles the edge if the common definition of the word "music"
Click to expand...
- Please refer back to the dictionary definition. Hip-hop falls firmly under that definition. Nature sounds do not because they are not 'ordered', or in other words, man made*. I suppose you could say they are 'ordered' by god and are therefore a divine music - but then you are moving away from science and into mysticism.

*Music comes from the Greek word muse – so in its root it is intended to describe anything which could be inspired by the muses – including poetry. The muses inspired human beings – not nature – so again, music refers to something which is man-made.

The English speaking people of the world have chosen to assign a certain definition to the word "music”. In your own discourse you're of course free to use any definition you like, but people will understand you better if you stick to the convention.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
I have nothing against hip hop or rap in general. It's not my personal cup of audio tea, but I have nothing against it as an art form.
Click to expand...


Same here. I actually rather like some of it, in fact.

I just wonder why so many idiots seem to gravitate towards it.
 
Kanye West and Outkast are two of the most pioneering acts in the mainstream today. But the tedium of repetitive misogynism, racism and aggression that is characteristic of current hip-hop is below the Backstreet Boys on my list of favourite musics. :)
 
a lot of hip hop has hooks, harmonies, progressions..some does, some doesn't..that's what makes it so mallable for producers to be creative. to say it isn't music is just not accepting change. radio stations play a lot of hip hop. they claim to be music stations. last time i checked billboard had a music chart w/ lots of hip hop on it. so it seems that millions of people disagree w/ your close minded opinion.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top