I will finally share some secrets about mixing!

  • Thread starter Thread starter sonusman
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It is all in where you are at!!! And where I am, crazy is normal!!!

I make a point to listen everywhere I go.

I like warm sounding rooms. I try to emulate those rooms when setting up a reverb. Most music produced in the last 5 years does not use those phoney sounding plate reverbs. They have a place in music, just not a prominate one.

Room reverbs will serve you well. Chamber reverbs will serve you well. Medium to small rooms and chambers for medium to up tempo stuff. Big rooms and chambers for slower stuff.

Three settings on a reverb that will make all the difference.

Pre-delay - This will allow the original signal develope before the onset of reverb. There may be times where you want to wash out the original sound, and will not have very much pre-delay at all, but not very often.

Hi-Cut Filters. This will mellow out the reverb, and make it sound like real rooms you will be in. Seldom do I have this set above 4KHz. You just don't normally need reverb content above 4KHz.

Diffusion - Lower settings creates reverbs that are more distinct. If you want a more subtle reverb that is not very noticable, raise the value. It should seldom be above 20%. It can go as low as 7% to sound cool.

Another setting that will make the reverb develope in interesting ways is the X Bass setting. It may be labeled Hi Filter too, but basically, it is a multiplier for the low end of a reverb. A 1X value is the algorythym as it was coded. If the values run 1-10 like on most Yamaha reverbs, you are on your own to figure out what they wanted to be the original algorythym. I would normally just say DON'T use Yamaha reverbs at all, because they are some of the most garbage can sounding things I have ever heard in my life. I find that .8X works most of the time. Here and there, you may go up to 2X, but usually only for reverbs assigned to very bright sounding instruments.

Spend a lot of time on developing natural sounding reverbs and save those to use later. You will find yourself using a lot of the same 2 or 3 reverbs in most stuff you mix. Really. Don't settle for factory presets. Get into the unit and play around a lot and find reverbs that sound like rooms you have been in before. These are the most desirable ones to use.

Here and there you are going to create special reverbs that are very intentional effects. Use these sparingly over the course of a whole CD of several songs. Overuse numbs the user to the effect.

Whether you assign a channel Pre or Post EQ to the reverbs really depends on what you want the frequency to be accentuated with reverb. You may have some cut eq on a snare drum at around 2KHz, but you may want that to be where your snare reverb to reside. It would make sense in this case to use a Pre EQ aux send to feed the reverb. If however you are boosting like 400Hz to get the snare to have a little body because it was tracked a little thin sounding, a Post EQ aux send may serve you better because a Pre EQ aux send in this case will not have enough low end content to excite the reverb in the way you want. Think it through, and when in doubt, try both ways.

Also, Pre and Post Fader aux sends can be usefull when assigning a track to a reverb send. Sometimes, I have a whole bunch of snare in the overheads, and I am depending upon that overhead track to supply most of the snare sound. Now, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to feed the overhead mics to a reverb, so how do you get a snare to excite a reverb? Easy, you assign a Pre Fader aux send to the reverb and just keep the fader down on the snare track, but turn the Pre Fader Aux send up on the snare channel. Cool eh?

Ed
 
Ed, 3 things you should be seriously considering:
1. PUBLISHING
2. PUBLISHING
3. PUBLISHING
Really, thanx for all of this "freebie", but track it, mix it, edit it, master it, then FOR PETE'S SAKE - PUBLISH IT!!! The book I mean, ya know ED'S MANUEL!!Damn it, check out how many people belong & visit this BBS multiply "edsponentially", plus 4 , carry the 3, go to your neighbor and you'll have a number, A BIG NUMBER of people that would BUY and be happy to have a bit of this knowledge. You'd probably look real good in that black 500 SL with the convertible top with highly polished MOMO's and those lo profile potenza tires ( ya know the real fat ones!). Maybe feel real good about helping the floundering masses of would be's, and hey maybe a babe or two thrown in the mix so as to have that fat pro sound ehh-ah look.

Find the time. You have the knowledge. Focus. Do it. I know e-body is probably cursing me ( not the first time, surely not the last).

Thanx again, really!
 
Hey Ed.... Engineear is right - you really should consider writing a book. It worked for Paul White (Sound On Sound editor.) One big hole in the recording manual handbook vein is a book on truly practical applications, and hey - with this thread you've already written yourself a really detailed outline - even some content!

I'd buy it!!! ('course I'd want the standard HR.COM BBS discount.... :) )

Just a thought...
Bruce
 
a book might be nice....

but for many that have been recording for the last 20 years or so, like many have here, they already know all this stuff...and IMO, these are the rules you break to create something original or unique. Ed's observations are VERY GOOD, however. I think Ed sums it up best when he says "think it thru". Too many times, people go to Guitar Center, buy the TM103, and feel that if they record at 24 bit, they have all the evils of recording licked, and their stuff will be the next hit. For the person that has been recording for less than 5 years, take Ed's words as the golden rule(s) but realize that if you are striking out on a "different" path to be original, you have to *discover* all this on your own and not learn it in print.
 
Yeah these are only Ed's subjective views - albeit good reading. It's also Ed's style and you may not like his style on your music either. All the rules in recording are there to be broken.
cheers
john
 
???????????????????????????????????i know so little???????????????????????????????

i have so much to learn ,yet now i am way too intimidated to wanna ask any questions.tell me when yer in a good mood,i dunno if it's anything similar but, working with and having to rely on other musician's makes me pop a blood vessel.anyway,please someone tell me when the storm has blown over i still wanna ask a lot of questions pertaining to wealth of knowledge you so freely divulged.THANK YOU ALL SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH THIS IS MY FAVORITE WEB SITE OF ALL TIMES!!!!!
 
Another excellent point.....

People getting timid about trying things because they don't know if it will work!

This is just audio guys, and you ain't going to set off a global nuclear alert by experimenting....:) Really. Trust me, I have all those buttons right here!

I blow through so many disks when I am working on a project. I burn a CD of every mix to play in other systems. In fact, even on involved mixes (ones that are going to take 10 hours) I will burn a disk every 2 or 3 hours and go play it on other systems just to get a feel for what is going on. You would not beleive how revealing this is. It can stop you cold from continuing down sonic roads that will disappoint you the next day. You know the story....."It sounded great last night in the control room. Why is there so much bass in the mix today?".

Experiment! Run a lot of different versions of the mix. At least a version with the vocal up a couple db, and one with the vocal down a couple db. Maybe one with the bass and kick drum up a bit too. Maybe one with the solo turned up. You never know which of those mixes is going to be what excites you two weeks later at the mastering house. I have shared this story in one of my articles on the main page, but here it is again. On The Heavy Brothers CD I worked months and months on, when we got to mastering, we wanted to use one of the last mixes we did of a particular song. There were about 10 mixes of it, and this one just had the right stuff, except for one thing! The guitar solo was really mushy. The other producer wanted to make the guitar more wet with effects, and I disagreed all the way with doing this. He said "Burn it that way", so I did. So, the solo section sucked bad. The tone sucked bad, and he realized it a week later when we were reviewing the mixes before going to the mastering house.

We did find however that a mix that was a few mixes before it had exactly the guitar tone and effects we wanted, but the rest of the song was not mixed quite like what we wanted. No problem! At mastering ,we flew in both mixes and splice in the guitar solo part from one mix into the other mix. The changes in and out of the guitar solo were so big that you could not hear the edit at all, and the different mix on the rest of the instruments during the solo made a nice change overall in the song. All of us, including the mastering engineer, who never stated his opinions no matter how many times I would ask him to, thought it was killer!

So, burn a lot of different versions of the mix! If you are going to master yourself, you can play around with spicing together a combination of mixes if you are not happy with one in particular. This is what Editors are for!!!

But experimenting is what audio is all about guys. It is not about Roger Nichols says do this, or sonusman says to do that, it is about taking all that with a grain of salt, or as things to try if the situation is right, but continuing on to find WHAT WORKS FOR THAT MIX THAT DAY! You will never know if a drastic eq change on something will work unless you try it.

Great work is not done overnight or in a hurry. The big boys spend usually far more time then many around here on production, and they have the best equipment and loads of experience too. You will easily spend a couple of days mixing a song if you have an ear towards getting the mix to sound right. You are cheating your song with any less time investment.

Experiment! Use up some disks! CDR are down to about $.30 each if you buy 50 at a time. Blow through those so you can hear your progress. You will learns a lot from it.


Ed
 
I gather in Nashville they call it 1 up or twoup - i.e. a mix that has the vocal 1db or 2db up (or down) so that if they later decide the vocals too low ir high later they can slice that line into the mix.
We also do a bandtrack only mix without the lead vocal so the artist can sing live to a bandtrack on TV etc.

cheers
john
 
yeah John, they may say that in Nashville, but usually they just say, "Dats my cusin."..."he's from up north from Kentucky."

Ky Kris...
 
I wish I had had that idea of doing different mixes. What a time saving venture. The first and only song I have mixed took me about 2 weeks to get it to where I liked it. Two weeks of checking a mix first thing in the morning and last thing at night, and in different peoples cars and systems. I should just have saved every diff mix and replayed them in sequence.
 
OHMYGOD!

GEEZ, I thought I was long winded! I can't even hold a candle to that!

All I can say is:

F-'n BRILLIANT!

... and you might want to make an appointment to have your medication dosage adjusted!

You may be insane, but you clearly know what you're talking about. Take five! You must be exhausted!

Homerecording.com BBS will have to buy a new 40 Gig hard disc, just to give Sonusman an open forum.
 
i think sonusman is an utter tool and is lying to you all.

on the other hand, i never thought of burning different mixes. duhhh..

and on another hand. i dont know is Ed thinks about this. but i like to stand in vrious places in the room, off to the sides, by the door looking at the wall. when you listen to music you arent often standing right between this perfectly spaced pair of monitors in a part of the room that has not bass or treble cut. and walking around changes the sound A LOT. it usually keep smy ears from becoming too sensitive to certain frequencies that appear more at my seat.
 
Yeah, I get up all the time and walk around to different parts of the room (basement where pc and me usually are). I've even called another line upstairs, put the phone down here on the desk while songs are rolling, and gone upstairs and answered so as to listen through the phone.

is that fucked up or what?
 
Yeah, it's like the shittiest muzak you can imagine.

BUT- it sounds better than a couple pairs of phones I have. i should take speakers of a phone receiver, tape them to the edges of a ball cap, and somehow connect a 1/4 to them.
 
..... STILL think Ed should publish, or at the very least have an" Ed's corner" or something. NO, not like a corner by the bus station, a recording forum corner! Unless ........ I wonder how he looks in a garter belt with a feathery jacket and crothless panties...... OH GAG A MAGGOT - I gotta stop drinking and doin' cheap drugs!! Generic advil just ain't cuttin' it!! Sorry I need to find a hobby or something, like homerecording or surfing the web for little barnyard animals, preferably ones that SQUEAL!!
 
if it sounds good, and seems to sound good wherever you play it KEEP IT. who cares how you got to that point. its as simple as that. skill is only learned through experimentation.
 
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