i want that smooth vintage crooner feel

[guitar junkie]

so myself i have to say that over the years i have always taken my roots from the vintage music that my family has always played in our home... i love the 1940's music on up to the 60's and while i cannot really do tape recording i am wondering if some of that smooth crooning clean vocal sound might have been the Ribbon mics used.... i love the feel of like Bing Crosby and Nat King Cole and guys like that... i know that if i can't afford to get into tape its a sure thing that i will not be able to get one of those vintage RCA mics but Nady and some others are making some nice cheaper mics now i am wondering if this will give me the basic tone that i have been looking for... i don't want lyrics that "sparkle" i don't sparkle as a singer myself.... what do you guys think?

 

[kidvybes]

...the Nady RSM2 or the Shinybox Ribbon Mics will get you pretty close to that "smooth, vintage" sound that your talking about, for very few dollars...you just need a mic pre with some serious gain and a conscious effort to make sure the phantom power is switched "OFF" when the mic is plugged in...

...here, the Nady is compared to the much more expensive AEA:
http://www.proaudioreview.com/june05/nady.shtml

...and then came the Royer comparison:
http://www.mojopie.com/rsm2.html

 

[Track Rat]

Look for some Beyer ribbons. Or if your pockets are deeper, the AEA mics.

 

[mrface2112]

you oughta check out some of the offerings by AEA. they're not cheap, but they're a whole lot cheaper (and more readily maintainable) than a vintage RCA.

the jury's still out on the Nady (et al) ribbons.....but i'd suspect them to suffer from considerable QC issues, if nothing else.


cheers,
wade

 

[BigRay]

the voice will have more impact than the mics on that sound and feel.

Just being a smart aleck man, I was going to suggest the AEA Stuff as well.
I dont really like anything Nady makes..In my opinion, they are cheaply made mics with a cheaply made sound. Sinatras sessions also utilized the Universal Audio 6167(I think that is the model) preamps. Variations of those pres are still made my UA.

The one mic Mr. Sinatra used a lot was the Neumann u47, which used to carry the telefunken logo(often nicknamed the "telly")

Ribbon mics are great for what you are searching for. Royer makes a great ribbon as well.

A great read on Sinatra's recording sessions is:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1556523564/104-7799307-8846341?v=glance&n=283155

 

[guitar junkie]

i am wondering about the shiny box and the nady mics i have read great stuff about them but i don't want to get a lemon either... so i am thinking that i may talk the guys at guitar center into getting a couple in stock to test... i also have a female vocal to record and we want to go with a retro sound also... but the thing is i do use a firepod so i might have to get a higher gain pre.

 

[AGCurry]

He's not looking for Sinatra, he's looking for Bing and Nat. Quite a difference IMO.

No doubt about it, the ribbon's the thing. The RCA 77 and 44 were a big part of the "crooner" sound due to their proximity effect.

I don't think the Beyer ribbons are even in the ball park, though, because none of them has a *long* ribbon. I have several Beyer ribbons and I don't use 'em much (okay, the 160 is nice on clean amplified instruments).

I love my AEA R84s and my R44CNE best, with my old Shure 330 second. I've never had the pleasure of trying Royers or Coles, but I'll bet they'd be sweet.

Oddly enough - odd because it's designed to *attenuate* proximity effect - if I didn't have the aforementioned mics, I'd go to the Electrovoice RE20 for a nice vintage Eddy Arnold/Red Foley sound. Get right up on it and croon.

 

[guitar junkie]

what about the electro harmonix ribbon mic that just came out for like a little less than $300 it seems pretty sweet to me i think any way... any idea how it sounds yet? i also see Octava mics out there that are ribbon mics... are they anything like the MC 012? as far as bang for the buck?

 

[scrubs]

Here's a song with my voice through the NADY RSM-2 ribbon (Studio Projects VTB-1 was the preamp and there was some FMR RNLA on the way in, I think). I'm quite pleased with the vocal sound, although I have no expensive ribbons with which to compare.

 

[mrface2112]

Oddly enough - odd because it's designed to *attenuate* proximity effect - if I didn't have the aforementioned mics, I'd go to the Electrovoice RE20 for a nice vintage Eddy Arnold/Red Foley sound. Get right up on it and croon.

good point there. i suppose you could say the same about a number of omnis, as well.....

i've got an RE38 which is a close cousin to the RE20 (same diaphragm, i'm told), and it's got a number of selectable eq settings on it, which help with controlling prox effect, etc.

while i like the sound of it a LOT on vocals (especially mine), i wouldn't classify its sound as anywhere close to "smooth vintage crooner".

maybe from 2ft away or so and on a crooner type voice you could come close........but for a Nat or Bing, you really need a long ribbon, as you stated.

i would suspect that the electroharmonix ribbon is in about the same ballpark as the nady or shinybox--only with a different label and possibly better QC (possibly).


cheers,
wade

 

[kidvybes]

i would suspect that the electroharmonix ribbon is in about the same ballpark as the nady or shinybox--only with a different label and possibly better QC (possibly).


cheers,
wade

...actually the Electro-Harmonix is a relabelled Oktava mic...and the reviews have been less favorable than the Chinese counterparts...the current issue of Electronic Musician did a ribbon mic shootout, and the EH got this wrap-up:
"Although I have championed the Russian-made Oktava mics in the past, the EH-R1 didn't impress me in any testing applications or session work. The EH-R1 is hampered by dark coloration and an erratic <limited high-end> frequency response. (I tested three of those mics while working on this article to check for consistency.)"

...the Chinese mics (Apex, Nady and SM Pro) were summed up:
"The Chinese mics often came close to the broad timbre of the big-sounding classic ribbons. But those nearly identical transducers never stood out to me in any application, and often they seemed to be missing essential sonic information at the extremes of the audio spectrum."

...keep in mind that both the Russian and Chinese mics were being directly compared to AEA, Cole, Royer and Beyerdynamic mics that cost many times as much...so that old "bang-for-the-buck" evaluation has to factored in when deciding which mic to purchase...

 

[mrface2112]

...actually the Electro-Harmonix is a relabelled Oktava mic...and the reviews have been less favorable than the Chinese counterparts....

color me better edjakated.

i never woulda guessed that the EH would've done *worse* than the Nady. wow.


cheers,
wade

 

[guitar junkie]

i thought this was interesting to read...

http://www.mojopie.com/rsm2.html

very nice review of the mic i am wondering what Hervey has to say about these things myself...

 

[cellardweller]

Shave often using a minimum of dual razor disposable.
Lather and repeat...




But seriously, is the Nady RSM the same ribbon that goes for about $160?
I was eyeballing that one just the other day....

 

[guitar junkie]

its about $200 through $289 most places although i hear Shiny Box sells it cheaper or something than most places..... it also seems that some people are selling other mics on ebay that knock off a Royer 121... it looks just like one of them but i do not know anybody with one yet....

 

[kid klash]

its about $200 through $289 most places although i hear Shiny Box sells it cheaper or something than most places..... it also seems that some people are selling other mics on ebay that knock off a Royer 121... it looks just like one of them but i do not know anybody with one yet....

Yes... the ShinyBox ribbons look pretty interesting... I'm thinking about ordering a basic "46" at $150 and trying it out. They've got a great return policy - if you don't like it, return it.

http://www.shinybox.com/product_info.php?products_id=51

 

[Dogman]

Here's a song with my voice through the NADY RSM-2 ribbon (Studio Projects VTB-1 was the preamp and there was some FMR RNLA on the way in, I think). I'm quite pleased with the vocal sound, although I have no expensive ribbons with which to compare.

Dude...Sweet. How far from the mic were you? It seems to have picked up your voice very well, yet it's clean. No sibilance, or distortion. Very nice....

 

[dgatwood]

...the Nady RSM2 or the Shinybox Ribbon Mics will get you pretty close to that "smooth, vintage" sound that your talking about, for very few dollars...you just need a mic pre with some serious gain and a conscious effort to make sure the phantom power is switched "OFF" when the mic is plugged in...

No need for serious gain with the RSM-2. Its output level is slightly hotter than an SM58 according to the specs, and it has sounded decent even with my lousiest pres.

the jury's still out on the Nady (et al) ribbons.....but i'd suspect them to suffer from considerable QC issues, if nothing else.

IMHO, they're a really good sound for the price. As for QC, they generally either work or they don't. My first one came with an extra washer bouncing around inside the head of the mic. Didn't even plug it in before I sent it back. Second one is sweet.

Just don't buy from overseas. I was going to buy from Thomann, but concluded that if it didn't work, I'd end up spending as much on the extra rounds of shipping and customs that it would end up costing more than the Nady from an eBay merchant.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

Buy a Didrik Degeer microphone.

Heheh... only like 6-7 of them in the entire US. Like 20k each. Heh.

 

[Marcellovalerio]

There's also that t-bone ribbon, that is similar to the nady (?), but cheaper...

Can anyone tell me how Franky Sinatra got the reverb going?? Did they have a chamber, or they just pick up ambience from the room with extra mic's, or since it's a figure 8 mic does it get a lot of reverb anyway?

I'm afraid of getting a ribbon then finding out it just sounds like my other mic's...Nice to get a sample above!