i, too, am stuck in preamp hell... (and have other querries)

  • Thread starter Thread starter shadowfax
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shadowfax

New member
... but i want some advice specific to my situation. :D i realize this kind of question is probably the most often asked, and i apologize. i'm a newby but i learn quickly; go easy on me!

ok, this summer i've been working hard at a shitty min wage job to furnish my home studio with the best equipment that i possibly can. Thus far i have (though obviously not all purchased this summer):

- yamaha 6pc recording custom drum kit w/ zildjian cymbals (mid to high end stuff.. should sound excellent)
- fender hotrod (40w, tubes)
- Marshall AVT50 (doesnt belong to me but it might as well...)
- Line6 POD
- Mackie CR1604 (6 XLR preamps, 10 other channels...)
- AKG drum mic package: D112 (bass), 4 C418s (toms) and 2 C1000s (overheads)
- Delta 1010LT
- Neutrik patch bay (it was cheaper to get this and connect the 1010 LT's breakout cable to the first ten channels to get myself a nice rack interface for my souncard then it was to get the delta 1010. And, this way, i have a patch bay :D)

here's the situation, then...

I plan to get an SM57 to round out my drum mic kit, and perhaps another mic for under the snare, but that's 8 or 9 mics and i have only 6 preamps.. therein lies the problem. Furthermore, I plan to get, before the end of the summer, a studio projects C1 for vocals and probably to mic my guitar amps.
So, I'm down at least 3 preamps. I had been reading around about preamps but once i discovered this forum and started reading what was posted here i was overwhelmed and figured i needed specific advice.

So, after all this, my questions are as follows:

1. if i'm going to be preamping for an aspect of my kit (say.. overheads or bass + snare) do i really need many features besides, say, what's offered on a blue tube? I'm going to be recording with cubase; will i be able to accomplish everything i would need to do to the signal there?

2. is joemeek gear usable for drums?

3. what preamp do you recommend? keep in mind that i need one dual preamp which, at least for now, will be used for an aspect of my kit, but may, in the future, be used for recording vocals or something in stereo. The other preamp i'd need is going to be used for either guitar or vocals most of the time with a studio projects C1.

thanks!
 
I am so disappointed . . .

(Just kidding)

In answer to your first question, no. Technically, all you need is something that will boost your mic level signal to line level. Some of the other stuff might be nice to have around, though.

In answer to your second question: You really are a newb, aren't ya? :) He he. I don't know which Joemeek you're asking about (mq3?, vc1q?, twinq?), but whatever it is, I'm sure it should be fine. You may (or may not) want to bypass the compressor, though.

Lastly, I don't understand why you need so many mics for your kit, but I realize that some prefer that sound.

Your third question makes me very disappointed. You newbs really don't pay much attention, do you.

(Sighs in bewilderment and disbelief). I'm only going to say this one more time now, okay?



d . . .




















m . . .




















p . . .




















3.



















Thank you.
 
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This time I'll say it...NO DMP3:eek:

You have plenty of clean detailed preamps in the Mackie CR. I would buy something with a little character and optical compression for vocals and electric guitar. The ART Tube Pac at $189 would fit the bill and it's cheap and makes a good DI for bass guitar and keyboards. dbx minipre is a cheap option too for a tube effect. Cheap tube preamps are controversial but shouldn't be dismissed in my opinion.

4 tom mics and two on the snare ? That sounds like overkill for a home studio. Maybe you should use fewer mikes and not even need additional preamps right now. You could spend the money on an RNC compresser and you could buy the C1 sooner.

Studio Projects : Hello ?
Wide Awake: When is that commision check coming ?
Studio Projects : The check is in the mail dude
Wide Awake: it better be, I'm tired of eating cat food and dumpster diving. If Bernie Ebbers of Worldcom doesn't go to jail I'm going to get a handgun permit....or just start pimping out your tube preamp to newbies.
 
Wide Awake said:
4 tom mics and two on the snare ? That sounds like overkill for a home studio. Maybe you should use fewer mikes and not even need additional preamps right now. You could spend the money on an RNC compresser and you could buy the C1 sooner.
Click to expand...

Alright, Wide. I'll concede that I agree with you on this point.

But I'm still curious as to what kind of sick, twisted and rudely sadistic game you are trying to play when you pass off these el-cheapo toobs to some poor, unsuspecting newb.

You should be ashamed. I am. Off you go, Wideawake! I am sentencing you off to el-cheapo toobo fake, crappy tube - gear hell ! ! !
 
Yeah, I wouldnt have an ART mic pre anywhere near my projects. I have a levelar comp I run my bass through and that is the only thing its good for.

I think the presonus is the only tube hybrid pre that is even useable, though Ive used a Paia kit.

Im out to get the peavey vmp2 soon.
 
I usually use 8-9 mics, and have been known to use 11-12. Given a kit with four toms, 9 mics is hardly unreasonable. Someday I might wanna try mic'ing the bottom heads of the toms too - then maybe I'll need 16!

Not implying that you can't do a good job with four mics (or one mic)... but a lot of people DO work with a lot more.
 
darrin_h2000 said:
Yeah, I wouldnt have an ART mic pre anywhere near my projects...
Click to expand...
I agree with the consensus on the ART TUBE PAC, but I think for those of you that haven't heard the ART PRO MPA DUAL CHANNEL Tube Pre-amp before, it deserves a listen. It's not my main pre, but I think it's going for like $330 right now. I paid like $575 for it 4 or 5 years ago.
Pretty good deal at $330.
 
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I have an ART Tube Channel and I like it better than the Meek I had, the Mackie vlz, and my PreSonus MP20. I don't buy the argument they they suck because they are faux-tube. If it sounds good it is good, and as Darrin might concede the optical compression is a very useful tool to have in your box. It's much different than a VCA compressor, and it's great for some applications. I have the ART Pro VLA opto-electric compressor and it's got tubes and it certainly isn't junk. They even recommended it in this months EM magazine even though it's been out for years.

The Tube Pac uses a different power supply than the Tube MP and they MAY sound a little diffent. I've never owned the Tube MP so I didn't recommend it. Anyway, my recommendation of a $189 preamp isn't going to force shadowfax into the poor house. I didn't recommend anything too expensive because he is working a minimum wage job.

Like Maichael said, the Pro MP at $330 is a hell of a deal if you want some variety in your home studio.

The DMP3 "sound" is too much like the Mackie CR1640 that shadowfax already has. If he wants another clean preamp then I would recommend it but variety is the spice of home studios IMHO so why not use the opportunity to buy something sonically different. Buy an ART, dbx, Peavey, HHB, UA M160. I'm just a tewb fool I guess. :cool:
 
thanks for the help, everyone.

The JoeMeek that i was considering, specifically, was the VC6. (I can probably get one used for a decent price.) I figured i could use this for snare or kick or something and just not use one of my toms for the time being, then get a dual preamp to use with the drums and use the VC6 for vocals and guitar, which is what i've seen it recommended for.

I had considered the DMP3 but as someone astutely pointed out, they are very similar to the mackie preamps. I suppose what i want out of a dual preamp would be something with tubes to warm up the sound of my overheads, perhaps. (I have very good cymbals.. they deserve the best :))

The ART you recommend, Wide Awake, seems alright, but if i got the VC6 for cheap then it would take the roll the ART might have played in my studio. Also, I'm wary of ART after seeing the high regard most hold the company in. Still, i'll consider it should the VC6 fall through.

keep it coming, everyone.. this is incredibly helpful. I still need advice about a dual preamp on the cheap which foots the bill, and if you have anything to offer on the subject of the first preamp, by all means...

Thanks a lot!
 
littledog said:
I usually use 8-9 mics, and have been known to use 11-12. Given a kit with four toms, 9 mics is hardly unreasonable. Someday I might wanna try mic'ing the bottom heads of the toms too - then maybe I'll need 16!
Click to expand...

Only Littledog. Dog, you not just our resident gear slut, you are our resident gear crack-whore. :) :)
 
Shadow,

You might want to try using the Joemeek on the kick drum. I've had a vc6 for some time now, and it's got really good, linaer bass response . . . ideal for kick, or for micing bass amps.

I think the meek is a great little box to have around.

As for something to use on overheads, I'm not really sure if a tube preamp would be ideal. Most of the cheaper models, including the vmp2, don't have the best response to quicker transients like drums. I definitely wouldn't hesitate to make it my go-to box for vocals and bass guitar, though.

I was going to put in a token "YMMV" (your mileage may vary), but that saying is getting kind of old. :) Keep asking questions like you're doing, but don't be afraid to experiment.
 
what would you recommend, then, for overheads? again i need two preamps, preferably in a rack format (but half rack is not the end of the world) and the best possible price vs. performance... did i mention i work for min wage?
 
Hmmm...I'll step in and defend the ART pres. I have a dual MP tube pre. It sounds fine- its not a bad piece of gear at all. (Shrug) I think there is just a reaction against the "tube" craze and the ART (and other "tube" pres) get criticized because of it.

As long as you aren't expecting it to make your tracks "warm, yet punchy" its a very useable pre amp. I like being able to add a little color to the tracks if I want, or I can turn the preamp into the tube circuit down for a fairly clean signal. I can get a variety of sounds out of it between mic choice and settings. I also have clean pres to use when I'm not interested in the color.

It does make a killer DI box for bass, too.

I've never used the Meek stuff, though, so I can't comment on how they compare. I also haven't been in the pre market for a while so I don't have any idea how the prices compare.

Take care,
Chris
 
shadowfax said:
what would you recommend, then, for overheads? again i need two preamps, preferably in a rack format (but half rack is not the end of the world) and the best possible price vs. performance... did i mention i work for min wage?
Click to expand...

M-Audio DMP3 $200

Never used it but it will probably be the best bet for overheads.
 
Wide Awake, I have to disagree with any posts numbered "666"

I'll pray for you















Hope you have a sense of humor
 
I'm going to have to go out on a limb here and agree with WA. :)

I'd just go with something solid state, for now at least.
 
Smokepole-

As I was reading your post, Ozzy Osbournes "Over the Mountain" was on the radio. Creepy, no ? :D

Someday I will say hello to Gods dark angel friend, but until then I will float on the clouds of this heaven on earth. :cool:
 
chessrock said:


Only Littledog. Dog, you not just our resident gear slut, you are our resident gear crack-whore. :) :)
Click to expand...

Damn!

Busted again!
 
"Yes I did leave HR LT, I won't go into why". (Alan Hyatt)

Back already ? :D

Don't tell us you've left and then stick around just to sell your preamp. You really are a valuable participant on the bbs and I personally hate to see you go, but maybe this is an example of why you rubbed some people the wrong way.

These bbs's require a very thick skin to participate in because of the impersonal nature and I feel bad that your relationship with us ended poorly, but can't believe you stuck around just to sell a couple of preamps. Are times that tough in the biz ?
 
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