I neep help................Please..........

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s8n

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Thank god. It looks like this is the right place.

I just purchased a BR8. I've never recorded b4. I have a lot o questions.

1. Getting levels on the BR8 (Stage Gaining) how do I get the appropriate levels?.

2. Suggestions on recording live drum trax?.

I've got my BR8 connected to a Yamaha EMX380 PA so I can record live drum trax. With the BR8 you can only record 2 trax at a time. How can I seperate the snare and kick drum from the rest of the kit?. How can I assign each to thier own track without having any bleed over from the rest of the kit?. I wanna be able to add reverb and compression to the snare and kick.


3. Panning.

Is this done during the recording or after?.

Please HEEEEEELP.....
 
Firstly welcome... i hope you find this place a valuable resource... HOWEVER - there used to be a guy here called S8-N as opposed to s8n... he will hopefully be joining our ranks again soon after a slight misfortune and so some of the locals here may not like you taking the name s8n...

Now back to your question.

I'm not too familiar with the BR8, but if you've only got 2 ins and you wanna record drums live and separate kick and snare then it's a little bit hard. The only way that I can think of how to do it is to hook up all your mics to the powered mixer and apply your reverb and compression there... then you can say have two overheads panned left and right - then take the stereo out on your PA to the two ins on your BR8. The only problem being you gotta get the sound you are happy with right off - you can't fiddle with it later.

To your third point... panning is done after recording but in your situation it seems a bit hard to do that as all you can record at once is 2 tracks...

Perhaps others might have some bright ideas...


Good Luck



[This message has been edited by Cooperman (edited 04-20-2000).]
 
I agree with Ears. I don't mean to pick on you s8n, but Ears is right. These questions should have already been answered before you bought your machine. Something that I always recommend to people who are new to recording is to record a song at a pro or project studio in their town. Get your feet wet. Ask questions. This way you'll know what gear you need before you start spending money and/or time.

You should find a good book on recording. A good one that I can suggest is "Modern Recording Techniques" by David Miles Huber. Check it out at amazon.com or something. Also, get a couple subscriptions to some recording magazines like Electronic Musician, EQ, Recording, Keyboard. These mags will keep you up-to-date and will have articles that teach basic (and sometimes advanced) principles. They will take you from ground zero to being sound in the fundamentals of recording.

If you're willing to spend hundreds of dollars for a recording device and other gear, surely you're willing to spend $20 for a book and $25 to $50 on a few magazines that will help you in the longer run than your user manual. I don't mean to come off harsh, but in this day of easy access to information, there's absolutely no excuse why you shouldn't be able to find info on the basics of "anything". I don't want to discourage you, because we're all at different levels of knowledge and skill. Keep recording. Things will eventually get better, but personal investigation is usually the fastest way out of the gate.

Rev E
 
s8n,

as far as your questions. In order to compress the snare and kick drums (w/ only 2-track recording capability, at a time) you could record snare and kick on the same track and put the other stuff (maybe an overhead mic) on the other track. You won't have a stereo drum track (for toms or cymbals), but this way would allow you to compress these two instruments.

I Don't recommend this for a couple of reasons: (1) the drums won't be in stereo, (2) the snare drum and kick aren't far enough apart in frequency to be put on the same track without some compromise in sound. I recommend recording the drums in stereo (i.e. with panning). If you want to compress kick and snare, just do so to the individual channels while recording.

If you want the signals split (and you're only recording 3 tracks - kick, snare, hi-hat/overheads) then you could record the kick and the hi-hat mics to one channel and record the snare to the other track. You could either bounce the hi-hat (or kick) to another track by sending the bass/hi-hat signal through an equalizer that takes out all the lows (leaving.. voila! the hi-hat) or vice-versa. Either way, even if the kick and hi-hat remained on the same track, you could eq them without interfering with the other too much since they're so far apart in their fundamental frequencies. I wouldn't suggest this way, but it is possible.

This goes back to my initial point from the previous post. Atleast you know now that in the future, when you buy your next recorder, you'll need 4 or more simultaneous inputs (at least more than 2).

Gain Staging - turn your master fader on the mixer to its unity position (usu. about 75% of its level). Then use the channel faders to control the levels and balance.

Panning - drums are usually pretty simple. Unless you're trying something really wild, the kick will be panned center. The snare will usually be panned center (or a touch off center). The hi-hats and/or overhead mic(s) is your call. It ranges from center to hard right or left.

Hope this helps,
Rev E
 
s8n,

as far as your questions. In order to compress the snare and kick drums (w/ only 2-track recording capability, at a time) you could record snare and kick on the same track and put the other stuff (maybe an overhead mic) on the other track. You won't have a stereo drum track (for toms or cymbals), but this way would allow you to compress these two instruments.

I Don't recommend this for a couple of reasons: (1) the drums won't be in stereo, (2) the snare drum and kick aren't far enough apart in frequency to be put on the same track without some compromise in sound. I recommend recording the drums in stereo (i.e. with panning). If you want to compress kick and snare, just do so to the individual channels while recording.

If you want the signals split (and you're only recording 3 tracks - kick, snare, hi-hat/overheads) then you could record the kick and the hi-hat mics to one channel and record the snare to the other track. You could either bounce the hi-hat (or kick) to another track by sending the bass/hi-hat signal through an equalizer that takes out all the lows (leaving.. voila! the hi-hat) or vice-versa. Either way, even if the kick and hi-hat remained on the same track, you could eq them without interfering with the other too much since they're so far apart in their fundamental frequencies. I wouldn't suggest this way, but it is possible.

This goes back to my initial point from the previous post. Atleast you know now that in the future, when you buy your next recorder, you'll need 4 or more simultaneous inputs (at least more than 2).

Gain Staging - turn your master fader on the mixer to its unity position (usu. about 75% of its level). Then use the channel faders to control the levels and balance.

Panning - drums are usually pretty simple. Unless you're trying something really wild, the kick will be panned center. The snare will usually be panned center (or a touch off center). The hi-hats and/or overhead mic(s) is your call. It ranges from center to hard right or left.

Hope this helps,
Rev E
 
I nuderstand what your trying to accomplish.

I have to say that I have been recording for 20yrs, and the problem today is the technology si way surpassed the know how of your average joe.
I started with a stereo reel to reel. Then to a 4track cassette, then to an 8 track reel to reel, to a VS880 and to a VS1680. Ok I'm rambling. The point is that if you start with unit like this, which you weren't even aware of it's limitations when you bought it I'm sure, you will spend the next 6 months to a year not creating music but learning how to work your gear.
If you don't understand how all the ins and outs work in an audio sytem them maybe you should start out a little simpler.

Anyway, now that I got that off my chest,
does your pa board have direct outs or inserts? This is where you would ptch in line a compressor or eq. Can you assign the inputs to any track, such as inputs 1-4 to track 1 and 2? If so you can go from the direct out of the Yamaha to the BR8 and then sum to the
left and right bus mix out and send the mix to record to tracks say 1 and 2.
I can d that on the VS units, I'm not sure that you can on the BR8.

Sorry to be a lecturer before but I feel that a lot of the problems I have seen in this forum is due to the fact that people go and by the new best thing and should be starting out a little more simplistic. Shoot me if I wrong.
If so
 
S8n If you have a compressor with your Yamaha setup then you can sub mix to stereo before the BR8. If the BR8 only has 2 inputs at once then you pretty well have to get another mixer or use the one you have.

You could record the rest of your program such as guitar, bass and keys (bed tracks to the BR8, then let your drummer hear them on the headphones. While you record the stereo mix from the Yamaha or use to overheads only for a not so great stereo straight in track of the drums. I would do the first.

REV E and me read the same stuff.
I have two volumes of Modern Recording Teqniques and I have read Recording (even when it was Home and Studio Regarding) since 1987 and EQ, EM and sometimes mix although it is a little pro for us.
The newest mag on the market from New York is Home Recording. It is really up your alley.
Rev E is right as well. Read read and read. Each of these rags have great articles for the newbies. Don't expect to be an expert the first month. It is a craft as much as your music. It should also be dealt with separately. That's important.
 
Hi guys.

Your right. I jumped the gun when I purchased the unit. I have taken some engineering classes and thought I would be able to apply what I learned from the classes to this unit. Man was I wrong.

Part of the prob is this a digital stand alone unit. In school I was working on a large console and assigning trax waz pretty strait forward. With this you have to switch back and forth between modes and dig around for crap.

Anyways. I've decided to just stereo mic the kit and leave it at that. I'm not ready to get all fancy just yet. I'd like to thank you guys for pointing that out. Constructive feedback is a good thing =).

I've purchased two books to help me along with the recording process. The only thing is a can't find any recording books geared toward home recording with this type of machine. The books I got have little sections that describe these types of units but don't go into any operatin details.

Thanks for all of your replys. I really appreciate and value your opinions. No one sounded to harsh. Besides you were right.

Be cool everyone..I'm sure I'll be bugging you again soon...
 
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