ridgeback
New member
and I'll say it again.....
I have a Tree House!!!!
I have a Tree House!!!!
Supercreep
Lizard People
See what you did, man?
You should have just used the search function.
You should have just used the search function.
Dogman
Unkle Ticklefingers
See what you did, man?
You should have just used the search function.
To the OP....Sorry if I helped convolute your thread...
Read what I said, and dissect it how you wish. It's merely my thoughts based on my own experience.
R
RoyalBeatz07
New member
1. My neighbors are standard residential neighborhood, aproximately 10 feet on either side.
2. The garage has no construction. Exposed beams, studs, and no insulation.
I have already purchased a bunch of 2x4x8 and 12 panels of 5/8 sheetrock drywall. Anything else, just ask/.
RB07
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Rod Gervais
New member
RB,
The garage - are the studs 2x4 - 2x6?
16" oc or 24" oc?
Is it a truss roof or rafters and ceiling joist?
Does the foundation sit above the interior slab or was this a monolithic pour?
What is the exterior finish of the garage - example: 5/8" sheathing with vinyl siding?
Some basics:
With a neighbor 10' from your garage (which means your property line is only 5' from your wall? is that right?) you are not going loose much from distance as far as sound loss goes.
If I assume that the 10' is actually to the property line then the numbers would look something like this:
Figure you loose 6dB in the first 3 feet - and then 6dB for each doubling there after -
So that means at 9' from the face of your garage you will only loose 12 dB. And although you should verify the exact numbers - you can probably have somewhere around 30dB (weighted) measured at the property line.
So that's a total of roughly 42dB that can safely escape your room.
I play drums - and have worked on soundproofing rooms for some drummers in NYC - so I am pretty aware that you'll be measuring around 110dB (C- weighting fast) if you play hard at all. If you play real hard then it's more like 120dB.
you should actually pick up a cheap radio shack sound level meter and verify exactly what levels you will be playing at. If you are playing along with music blaring then that will add to it as well.
But with the numbers above - That means that you will be trying to keep roughly 68 to 78dB (weighted) locked inside your garage.
And that is a challenge.
Get back to us with the additional info please.
Rod
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RoyalBeatz07
New member
The garage - are the studs 2x4 and im using 2x4 for the room
16" oc
rafters and ceiling joist?
the foundation is a monolithic pour?
What is the exterior finish of the garage - plain old stucco
R
Rod Gervais
New member
That's too bad you already have the studs for your room - you get better low frequency isolation with 2x6 studs @ 24" o.c. than the 2x4's - and the LF trasnsmissions are your biggest problem - you might want to consider returning the 2x4 and replacing them with 2x6 (the stud cost in the long run is the same because 2 2x6 is the same board feet as 3 2x4 and both cover 4').
You do pay a small premium for the plates - but it's worth the investment in the added isolation.
Yes - explain how the ceiling and roof are constructed.
OK - this is getting a little frustrating - I specifically asked - DOES THE FOUNDATION SIT ABOVE THE INTERIOR SLAB? Does it?
Listen - you are not making this easy - how thick is the stucco - what is it over? Is it over plywood - is it over chipboard - is it over 3/4" pine coards 6" wide........ how thick is the sheathing?
I even gave you an example of what to provide me on this one.
If you expect help here (or anywhere else for that matter) you really have to provide detailed information so we can figure things out.
If you don't understand the terminology - go to the library and get a book on basic carpentry and building techniques and read it -
how do I communicate with you if you don't understand 1/2 of what I say?
You also have to answer all of my questions - so again - is the 10' to the property line - or the actual face of the neighbor's house?
Sincerely,
Rod
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RoyalBeatz07
New member
hey bro, i apreciate your help, but theres no need to jump to conclusions. i understand what you are sayin. i copied and pasted for a quick response in hopes you would be able to respond quickly, due to the fact i want to get this constructed asap.
the ceiling in my garage is rafters, i copied too much and did not take a second look.
the foundation is a monolithic pour, a step down from the house. like an average california home built in the 70s(if u know what i mean).
from the wall of my garage to the wall of my neghbors garage to the right(facing the house) is approximately 15'.
the garage is covered with ocb and 1/2" stucco, average california house built in the 70s.
anything else i need to clear up? thanks foryour help
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Rod Gervais
New member
RB,
one last open question - do you play the music in the room out loud - or do you play with headphones on?
Rod
6
60's guy
Guest
It's great to see that this thread finally got back on track and RB is still here.
I also apologize to Dogman for coming down on him in the manner that I did.
No offense was intended. My mouth gets ahead of my brain at times.
and I get wound up tighter than a bull's ass at fly swatting time.
Rod Gervais is an asset to this board and he is as passionate about acoustics and studio construction as is Rick Fitzpatrick.
I'm no expert, but I'm always paying attention to what Rod and Rick have to say and I have applied what I have learned from them to my recording area.
I also apologize to Dogman for coming down on him in the manner that I did.
No offense was intended. My mouth gets ahead of my brain at times.
and I get wound up tighter than a bull's ass at fly swatting time.Rod Gervais is an asset to this board and he is as passionate about acoustics and studio construction as is Rick Fitzpatrick.
I'm no expert, but I'm always paying attention to what Rod and Rick have to say and I have applied what I have learned from them to my recording area.
R
Rod Gervais
New member
OK - you never answered my last question - but I'll give it a shot any way.
With the property line 7.5 feet from your building - you have your work cut out for you. That raises the isolation you need by another 3 to 4 dB (weighted) (You need to keep in between 72 to 82 dB deopending upon the frequency...........)
If you were to add about 3 sheets of drywall inside the existing garage walls - right tight against the sheathing - then insulate the bays - and then your new walls inside that - with about 4 layers of drywall on them - and add green glue to a couple of those (I would do between 1 and 2 and then between 3 and 4) - with RICS Clips - hayt section and about 4 layers on the existing ceiling - with the walls decoupled from the ceiling - and everything caulked to heck - with double Super Doors and 3 layers of weatherstripping for each door - and a double wall for the 2 inside walls with 4 layers on that outside face - you can probably get fairly close to your goal.
That is still going to be cheaper than the original material you were talking about - but I wouldn't bother to piant aything until I tested the final product - you can always add one more layer if you need to.
And make sure to do your ceiling first and let it run about 1' past where your walls will end so you can seal it real good with backer rod and caulk.
Now - room size should NOT be 8 x 8 - make it something like 1: 1.14: 1.39 for a ratio.
That means with an 8' ceiling you would want the width to be 1.14 times that (9.12') and the length to be 1.39 times that same 8' ( 11.12')
Try to see if you can make something close to that work
Good luck,
Rod
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diyguy
New member
The other issue is that simply adding mass to something has the reverse effect. The room dimensions should never ever be the same for two walls let alone 4 walls or you are looking at spending 3 times as much in acoustics to fix the problem. Float the floor and build the ceiling on top of the walls. Have at least a 6 to 12 inch gap between the new walls and the existing garage walls. The ceiling obviously can't be lowered as much.
Vary the layer thickness of the drywall and use 2 layers on each side of the walls. Stagger the seams and use 100% silicone to adhere the layers of sheetrock. Do not let the seams of the walls and corners touch rather a 1/8 to 1/4 inch gap to fill in with silicone later. Use braces to hold in drywall until it sets and if you can get away with it "Zero" screws to hold it up.
Surface mount all electrical and audio jack lines.
Studio Ventilation: This is a huge deal as well and if you screw this part up you just wasted all your time on your room. I used a plenum design from dawbox http://www.dawbox.com/acoustic products Ventilation.htm that helped me understand how to use flex duct and stuff from home depot to get air in and out of my room and keep cross talk to a minimum.
There are some great minds and resources out there. Do not just rush doing this because there are 100 ways to do it wrong.
Vary the layer thickness of the drywall and use 2 layers on each side of the walls. Stagger the seams and use 100% silicone to adhere the layers of sheetrock. Do not let the seams of the walls and corners touch rather a 1/8 to 1/4 inch gap to fill in with silicone later. Use braces to hold in drywall until it sets and if you can get away with it "Zero" screws to hold it up.
Surface mount all electrical and audio jack lines.
Studio Ventilation: This is a huge deal as well and if you screw this part up you just wasted all your time on your room. I used a plenum design from dawbox http://www.dawbox.com/acoustic products Ventilation.htm that helped me understand how to use flex duct and stuff from home depot to get air in and out of my room and keep cross talk to a minimum.
There are some great minds and resources out there. Do not just rush doing this because there are 100 ways to do it wrong.
B
bpape
Acoustic Designer - GIK
Adding mass works in 2 ways - it simply is more to get through - AND - it drops the resonant frequency of the assembly which means less of the music is going to excite it.
Also, if you are building a room in a room as Rod suggested (good idea) then you wouldn't want any drywall on the outside of the inner wall as that would create a triple leaf which can actually increase transmission. The idea is to have a deep a cavity as possible between massive surfaces, filled with insulation, and have the masses be as heavy as possible.
Alternating the thicknesses of the drywall isn't going to be as good as making all of them as thick as possible. It's a nice theory but in reality it doesn't work. Now, if you want to make the walls react differently, then you can make 2 walls with 24" OC spacing and 2 with 16" OC spacing. Though, the 24" spacing will do a better job of isolation.
Bryan
Also, if you are building a room in a room as Rod suggested (good idea) then you wouldn't want any drywall on the outside of the inner wall as that would create a triple leaf which can actually increase transmission. The idea is to have a deep a cavity as possible between massive surfaces, filled with insulation, and have the masses be as heavy as possible.
Alternating the thicknesses of the drywall isn't going to be as good as making all of them as thick as possible. It's a nice theory but in reality it doesn't work. Now, if you want to make the walls react differently, then you can make 2 walls with 24" OC spacing and 2 with 16" OC spacing. Though, the 24" spacing will do a better job of isolation.
Bryan
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diyguy
New member
Mass is very important and it should be floating. As above stated do not use the same dimensions when going as large as 8x8. You also need to consider diy ventilation as many just simply overlook this concept. The door locks are critical as well since all your sound proofing is only as good as the weakest link. Consider vocal booth plans, recording plans, with a modular design unless you plan on getting a letter in the mail from the city asking for a permit or tear it down. Code is huge too the ceiling must be a certain height.
I used a vocal booth plans and ventilation from a company called DAWBOX then moded the specs for double wall and augmented the ventilation. I found it very helpful and gave me a good understanding of what I needed to do. It is all floating with two plenums and a solid core door. Great for vocal and acoustic guitar and good for drums although not the ideal cubic square footage. I also have two other rooms a mix room and a small vocal booth 5x7.
Three words: Silicone, Silicone, Silicone…
I used a vocal booth plans and ventilation from a company called DAWBOX then moded the specs for double wall and augmented the ventilation. I found it very helpful and gave me a good understanding of what I needed to do. It is all floating with two plenums and a solid core door. Great for vocal and acoustic guitar and good for drums although not the ideal cubic square footage. I also have two other rooms a mix room and a small vocal booth 5x7.
Three words: Silicone, Silicone, Silicone…