Track Rat
Just Your Average Sized Member
That sounds real nice. What kind of guitar is that Rick?
R
Recording Engineer
Moderator
Well...
Well, it all just comes down to if you want/need peanut butter AND jelly or just one big jar of peanut butter... No more, no less!
I can pretty darn much guarantee you that the 786 won't match-up what so ever to any of those others I mentioned and many others...
By the way, you're gravely wrong about 24-bit is 24-bit. Might want to study-up on that. The below site and many others will get you going on educating yourself on that.
http://www.digido.com
Well, it all just comes down to if you want/need peanut butter AND jelly or just one big jar of peanut butter... No more, no less!
I can pretty darn much guarantee you that the 786 won't match-up what so ever to any of those others I mentioned and many others...
By the way, you're gravely wrong about 24-bit is 24-bit. Might want to study-up on that. The below site and many others will get you going on educating yourself on that.
http://www.digido.com
heylow
New member
LocusLarsen said:
YIKES!!!!
This is not true. I mean do what you want with the advice given but know that this is SO false!!! 24 bit is not 24 bit is not 24 bit. Especially on delicate signals like acoustic guitar, classical music, etc. Converters can make all the difference in the world....believe it. There are 16 bit converters that make yours (and mine for that matter) sound like trash cans.
REs advice is good advice. I dont know how serious you are about recording...it does seem that you want the best you can get. You have to understand that a neumann U87 through a Mackie pre is STILL a U87 through a Mackie pre...meaning...it will work...it will do a job...but all that microphone will be severely limited by an unequal pre.
A simple 57 can sound like a totally different mic through a nice pre, yet 5 different mics can sound relatively the same through a terrible one. For instance, though I think Mackie does well for the money, every mic I have used through it exhibits some of the same characteristics where as on my Davisound, the differences between them are staggering.
As for converters, I'd suggest that even if you are not interested in purchasing some now, go and learn as much as you can or even audition a few. I think you'll see how different things get....you may just find that you dont reach for the EQ nearly as much.
I did not understand the multichannel question...sorry...I cant comment.
As for the brand loyalty...that has nothing to do with (my) recommendations. I can only comment on what i know. I dont think the DBX is going to be that great, personally. I dont know for sure but its a hunch based on my expereiences with most newer (and cheaper) DBX products....Speaking purely bang for the buck.
Frist44 also recommended the Sytek.....theres a good deal! I've seen em go on Ebay for 600 bucks. I'd like to get one, myself. I've read a lot of guys switch 2 of the channels to Burr Brown ICs (a 40 dollar mod) and have, essentially, 2 sets of 2 slightly different sounding pres (2 very clean, 2 slighty "softer" more "colored.") Steve Albini uses these! (not that it matters, I guess)
I think thats the end of my rant. i would just like to see that you get the sound you are trying to get. You sound like a guy who knows what he wants, soundwise. Unfortunately, good sound and more money often go hand in hand and these days, its harder to figure out what good value is as the market is flooded with products all claiming to be the best.
On the other hand, good sound is much cheaper that it used to be.......but its still confusing. Good luck!
I hope some of this made sense...I just woke up. That 24 bit statement nearly made spit tea all over my monitor
heylow
R
Richard Monroe
Well-known member
What Heylow said.-Richie
heylow
New member
One more thing....
You mentioned the DaviSound as a super expensive unit. Its really not if you measure it up, dollars and pres. It's less than 250 a channel. I personally dont think you can beat it with the other 250 a channel pres out there for honest, clean preamp power. Infact, i'll get cocky and say you wont come close!
I'm no pro, but I have worked with some pro gear and, IMO, it measures up to all of the big boys that I've heard. I have not done A/B testing with said big boys and I am not saying they sound "just like" anything in particular but the DaviSounds exhibit everything you'd want in a nice pre.
I did put them up directly against a Presonus Digimax though....poor, poor Max!
I would seriously look into either this or the Sytek.
heylow
You mentioned the DaviSound as a super expensive unit. Its really not if you measure it up, dollars and pres. It's less than 250 a channel. I personally dont think you can beat it with the other 250 a channel pres out there for honest, clean preamp power. Infact, i'll get cocky and say you wont come close!
I'm no pro, but I have worked with some pro gear and, IMO, it measures up to all of the big boys that I've heard. I have not done A/B testing with said big boys and I am not saying they sound "just like" anything in particular but the DaviSounds exhibit everything you'd want in a nice pre.
I did put them up directly against a Presonus Digimax though....poor, poor Max!
I would seriously look into either this or the Sytek.
heylow
LocusLarsen
New member
OK OK OK....
Problem---------If I output from a preamp into the roland I use the mic input on the 1680, if output from a preamp to an A/D what do I input into my Roland. And I AM VERY SERIOUS ABOUT MY SOUND. As far as my financial situaltion is concerned I am in this for LIFE and will eventually invest in ProTOOLs oneday....fardown the road....but I spent a crip of money on the 1680, I am only 21. I got when it when I was just turning 18. I want good mics...I want good Pres...and I suppose one day I'll get a D/A....but for know I am finally figuring out how this machine works (if you can believe that, It is THE most confusing contraption EVER concocted) Every day I figure more out....Believe it or not, last night I just got the most amazing sound out of it yet....I put my AKG C3000B about a foot higher than the guitar, 2 1/2 feet back, midway from the headstock and sound hole. Paned it about 10+-. I used a Lacie(?) picup in the soundhole and DIed it with a nice stereo cathedral type reverb with tweeking. Left it centered.
Now what I need to do is get a preamp...Is there any place to check out a Davisound TB6....and can I get 1/4 in those too....maybe a HI-Z? I will hold off on an A/D for a while...I still want to check out the AKG 414....but whats with the new one they have out.
Problem---------If I output from a preamp into the roland I use the mic input on the 1680, if output from a preamp to an A/D what do I input into my Roland. And I AM VERY SERIOUS ABOUT MY SOUND. As far as my financial situaltion is concerned I am in this for LIFE and will eventually invest in ProTOOLs oneday....fardown the road....but I spent a crip of money on the 1680, I am only 21. I got when it when I was just turning 18. I want good mics...I want good Pres...and I suppose one day I'll get a D/A....but for know I am finally figuring out how this machine works (if you can believe that, It is THE most confusing contraption EVER concocted) Every day I figure more out....Believe it or not, last night I just got the most amazing sound out of it yet....I put my AKG C3000B about a foot higher than the guitar, 2 1/2 feet back, midway from the headstock and sound hole. Paned it about 10+-. I used a Lacie(?) picup in the soundhole and DIed it with a nice stereo cathedral type reverb with tweeking. Left it centered.
Now what I need to do is get a preamp...Is there any place to check out a Davisound TB6....and can I get 1/4 in those too....maybe a HI-Z? I will hold off on an A/D for a while...I still want to check out the AKG 414....but whats with the new one they have out.
R
Recording Engineer
Moderator
Now We're Cookin'!!!
Hook-up Options:
If using an external (also known as outboard) preamp -
Connect a microphone to an input of the preamp via a balanced Female XLR-to-Male XLR microphone cable. Connect the line output of the preamp to an input of the 1680 via a balanced cable terminated with the correct end connectors for use with your gear (whether it be Female XLR-to-Male XLR, Female XLR-to-Male TRS (Tip-Ring-Sleeve) 1/4", Male TRS 1/4"-to-Male TRS 1/4", or any other combination). If using Inputs 1 or 2 on the 1680, make sure you NEVER have phantom power on while doing this! In fact, you may want to avoid using Inputs 1 & 2 on the 1680 when using an outboard preamp (or ANYTHING else other than a microphone) as phantom power may very well damage your preamp!
If using an outboard preamp AND A/D converter -
Connect a microphone to an input of the preamp via a balanced Female XLR-to-Male XLR microphone cable. Connect the line output of the preamp to an analog input of the A/D converter via a balanced cable terminated with the correct end connectors for use with your gear (whether it be Female XLR-to-Male XLR, Female XLR-to-Male TRS (Tip-Ring-Sleeve) 1/4", Male TRS 1/4"-to-Male TRS 1/4", or any other combination). Connect the A/D converter digital output to the digital input of the 1680 via a 75-ohm coaxial S/PDIF cable (NOT an RCA cable like you use for any of the analog outputs on the 1680!).
By the way, avoid Hi-Z outputs (mic or line) whenever possible.
As for a place to check-out a DaviSound TB-6, read the DaviSound website front-to-back and you'll have your answer. What I'm trying to say is "nowhere", and you can read why on their website in various places. However, with that said, maybe heylow will let you here some stuff he's done with his TB-6. Or, you can hear some stuff I've done with my TB-3 (has the same mic pres as what are in the TB-6). Otherwise, you're welcome to visit me here at my studio to hear my TB-3 live!
Anyhow, it sure does sound like you're developing a passion for this "recording engineering" here. And you're certainly serious enough about it to put you're money where you're mouth is! I mean that in the utmost genuine, positive way!
Keep it up! You got a lot going for yourself at 21... By the way, I'm only 23!!!
Hook-up Options:
If using an external (also known as outboard) preamp -
Connect a microphone to an input of the preamp via a balanced Female XLR-to-Male XLR microphone cable. Connect the line output of the preamp to an input of the 1680 via a balanced cable terminated with the correct end connectors for use with your gear (whether it be Female XLR-to-Male XLR, Female XLR-to-Male TRS (Tip-Ring-Sleeve) 1/4", Male TRS 1/4"-to-Male TRS 1/4", or any other combination). If using Inputs 1 or 2 on the 1680, make sure you NEVER have phantom power on while doing this! In fact, you may want to avoid using Inputs 1 & 2 on the 1680 when using an outboard preamp (or ANYTHING else other than a microphone) as phantom power may very well damage your preamp!
If using an outboard preamp AND A/D converter -
Connect a microphone to an input of the preamp via a balanced Female XLR-to-Male XLR microphone cable. Connect the line output of the preamp to an analog input of the A/D converter via a balanced cable terminated with the correct end connectors for use with your gear (whether it be Female XLR-to-Male XLR, Female XLR-to-Male TRS (Tip-Ring-Sleeve) 1/4", Male TRS 1/4"-to-Male TRS 1/4", or any other combination). Connect the A/D converter digital output to the digital input of the 1680 via a 75-ohm coaxial S/PDIF cable (NOT an RCA cable like you use for any of the analog outputs on the 1680!).
By the way, avoid Hi-Z outputs (mic or line) whenever possible.
As for a place to check-out a DaviSound TB-6, read the DaviSound website front-to-back and you'll have your answer. What I'm trying to say is "nowhere", and you can read why on their website in various places. However, with that said, maybe heylow will let you here some stuff he's done with his TB-6. Or, you can hear some stuff I've done with my TB-3 (has the same mic pres as what are in the TB-6). Otherwise, you're welcome to visit me here at my studio to hear my TB-3 live!
Anyhow, it sure does sound like you're developing a passion for this "recording engineering" here. And you're certainly serious enough about it to put you're money where you're mouth is! I mean that in the utmost genuine, positive way!
Keep it up! You got a lot going for yourself at 21... By the way, I'm only 23!!!
LocusLarsen
New member
thats all fine and dandy but.....
Can I record more than one track at a time if I use an A/D converter into my digital input on my 1680. I'm not too familiar with using that type of stuff, but I know I only have Two inputs and two outputs, one is that DVD looking thing, and the other looks like RCA.
Secondly, YES or NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No paragraphs here.. OK!
Aren't all mic cables balanced!?! If No, I can figure my way around the store and pay more attention, but I have monster cables sooooo....for that price I hope they are.
Back to the first question, Is it nessesary to drop a grand on an A/D converter. I do need it to be open for a good deal of multitracking when I find my way into protools and external mixing boards and the lot. I have not doubt that A/D can keep track of seperate tracks and split them up in the roland, but can they?
Can I record more than one track at a time if I use an A/D converter into my digital input on my 1680. I'm not too familiar with using that type of stuff, but I know I only have Two inputs and two outputs, one is that DVD looking thing, and the other looks like RCA.
Secondly, YES or NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No paragraphs here.. OK!
Aren't all mic cables balanced!?! If No, I can figure my way around the store and pay more attention, but I have monster cables sooooo....for that price I hope they are.
Back to the first question, Is it nessesary to drop a grand on an A/D converter. I do need it to be open for a good deal of multitracking when I find my way into protools and external mixing boards and the lot. I have not doubt that A/D can keep track of seperate tracks and split them up in the roland, but can they?
LocusLarsen
New member
oh ya..
I read the DaviSound web sit front to back last night and know what it was you are talking about....Sounded like some Corperate CEO runaround. But I was looking and notice that the TB10 was almost more suited to me. Two mic Pres with 1/4" inputs and XLR. For 950. The TB6 is 1000.
No about Pres, I always was under the assumption that Tubes gave things the most warmth. I don't recall the word tube even being on their website.
I read the DaviSound web sit front to back last night and know what it was you are talking about....Sounded like some Corperate CEO runaround. But I was looking and notice that the TB10 was almost more suited to me. Two mic Pres with 1/4" inputs and XLR. For 950. The TB6 is 1000.
No about Pres, I always was under the assumption that Tubes gave things the most warmth. I don't recall the word tube even being on their website.
LocusLarsen
New member
and again..................
When I play electric guitar will ONLY use tube amps. I know that my favorite Roland makes the most clean amp around, the JC120, but I prefer the sparkle of a fender Blues Delux with a Tele, even if it IS just natural distortion. (and I'm not talking about fully driven overdrive here, I'm talking NO drive or gain)
Bells........I swear I m hearing BELLS!!!
When I play electric guitar will ONLY use tube amps. I know that my favorite Roland makes the most clean amp around, the JC120, but I prefer the sparkle of a fender Blues Delux with a Tele, even if it IS just natural distortion. (and I'm not talking about fully driven overdrive here, I'm talking NO drive or gain)
Bells........I swear I m hearing BELLS!!!
R
Recording Engineer
Moderator
LocusLarsen,
I don't have time to specifically answer and respond your questions right away now, but I'll be back. I just wanted to say don't give much into the hype; from and not from "reviews". Educate yourself from books and online newsgroups, bbs', and educational articles and writings, and with the gear you have.
For example, soon, you'll realize a truly professional designed and manufactured ANYTHING (tube or not) can very well sound "warm" and full of life (if designed to be) and a production cost dominating, poorly designed and manufactured ANYTHING (tube or not) can sound "cold" and lifeless.
By the way, the DaviSound site does mention tubes AND one of their Tool Boxes uses a tube gain stage as 1 of 3 gain stages (which I own). Might want to read it again if you care to.
I don't have time to specifically answer and respond your questions right away now, but I'll be back. I just wanted to say don't give much into the hype; from and not from "reviews". Educate yourself from books and online newsgroups, bbs', and educational articles and writings, and with the gear you have.
For example, soon, you'll realize a truly professional designed and manufactured ANYTHING (tube or not) can very well sound "warm" and full of life (if designed to be) and a production cost dominating, poorly designed and manufactured ANYTHING (tube or not) can sound "cold" and lifeless.
By the way, the DaviSound site does mention tubes AND one of their Tool Boxes uses a tube gain stage as 1 of 3 gain stages (which I own). Might want to read it again if you care to.
heylow
New member
Yes, XLR mic cable carries balanced signal.
I cant answer some of the other stuff as I am not familiar with your unit or how an external A/D would hook up.
As to Davisound and CEO runaround...I'm not sure what you mean. Its a little hairy to navigate and the guy is quite "talkative" but there is probably more info on that site regaring his products than most other MFG's sites. The thing is, he is REALLY into what he does. I guess thats one of the things that made me buy from him. I often find myself rooting for the passionate underdog, I guess
It's pretty much a guy and a couple of helpers. He builds it all by hand....of course, I'm sure you read that already but if you email him, he is always fast and friendly and will type your ear off about anything you'd ever care to ask or discuss.
We spoke via email for quite a while before I bought. I knew of a few guys who were happy with theirs and my figuring was that for the "dollar per pre" price point, the worst thing that would happen is it would perform like most other things in the price range and that the best thing that could happen would be that I get an awesome pre for a steal. I'm happy to report the latter was the case, for me, anyway.
One more thing...the TB-6 is 895.00. I was in need of a couple of DI instrument pres as well and when we finally talked price, he gave me the price of 975.00, all inclusive, on my doorstep. In other words, he threw in 2 instrument pres for less than 100 bucks because I was a new and somewhat apprehensive customer.
So mines a custom job. You can see some photos that he took of it prior to sending it to me here:
http://www.davisound.com/DT-TB6C-1.jpg
http://www.davisound.com/DT-TB6C-3.jpg
Which are found at the bottom of this page:
http://www.davisound.com/WoodYou.html
The best thing is the little brass plate on the back with my name on it...nice touch.
I dont mean to sound like a commercial...it's still new and I havent really had the chance to talk about it so I'm gushing a little.
RE had another great point about reading and educating yourself and doing what is right for you. Its easy to learn...the internet is a wonderful tool!
heylow
I cant answer some of the other stuff as I am not familiar with your unit or how an external A/D would hook up.
As to Davisound and CEO runaround...I'm not sure what you mean. Its a little hairy to navigate and the guy is quite "talkative" but there is probably more info on that site regaring his products than most other MFG's sites. The thing is, he is REALLY into what he does. I guess thats one of the things that made me buy from him. I often find myself rooting for the passionate underdog, I guess
It's pretty much a guy and a couple of helpers. He builds it all by hand....of course, I'm sure you read that already but if you email him, he is always fast and friendly and will type your ear off about anything you'd ever care to ask or discuss.
We spoke via email for quite a while before I bought. I knew of a few guys who were happy with theirs and my figuring was that for the "dollar per pre" price point, the worst thing that would happen is it would perform like most other things in the price range and that the best thing that could happen would be that I get an awesome pre for a steal. I'm happy to report the latter was the case, for me, anyway.
One more thing...the TB-6 is 895.00. I was in need of a couple of DI instrument pres as well and when we finally talked price, he gave me the price of 975.00, all inclusive, on my doorstep. In other words, he threw in 2 instrument pres for less than 100 bucks because I was a new and somewhat apprehensive customer.
So mines a custom job. You can see some photos that he took of it prior to sending it to me here:
http://www.davisound.com/DT-TB6C-1.jpg
http://www.davisound.com/DT-TB6C-3.jpg
Which are found at the bottom of this page:
http://www.davisound.com/WoodYou.html
The best thing is the little brass plate on the back with my name on it...nice touch.
I dont mean to sound like a commercial...it's still new and I havent really had the chance to talk about it so I'm gushing a little.
RE had another great point about reading and educating yourself and doing what is right for you. Its easy to learn...the internet is a wonderful tool!
heylow
LocusLarsen
New member
When I said CEO runaround that was a joke...it was based complete due to the FAQ section of their website where I felt he didn't quite answer the way he should have....The question about wanting to try it first...He could have simply said -
We custom build and dont have extra units, they are not available in stores.
Instead he said all types of stuff reguarding how cheap they are and just try it you'll like I'm a good guy its only a thousand dollars you can afford that just eat my hamburger, Mmmmmmmm......
I realize that Pres reach 2 grand easily, but who is he to say that its only a thousand dollars. That scares me. He sounded confident in what he is selling though...key word is SELLING.
Now I am not knocking him or his product but that is an inexcusable answer. cough..Spin Doctor..cough!
But I still want to hear one!
As for tubes...Obviously.....a cheap tube is not as good as an expensive one, but the most expensive solid state guitar amp in the WORLD! can NOT compete with a GOOD tube amp. That JC120 is considered the most clean amp in the world, but it still has NO life. Granted color on a guitar signal is different from a mic, but......
If one were to want to hear a GOOD tube preamp, what would be a good model to check out.
We custom build and dont have extra units, they are not available in stores.
Instead he said all types of stuff reguarding how cheap they are and just try it you'll like I'm a good guy its only a thousand dollars you can afford that just eat my hamburger, Mmmmmmmm......
I realize that Pres reach 2 grand easily, but who is he to say that its only a thousand dollars. That scares me. He sounded confident in what he is selling though...key word is SELLING.
Now I am not knocking him or his product but that is an inexcusable answer. cough..Spin Doctor..cough!
But I still want to hear one!
As for tubes...Obviously.....a cheap tube is not as good as an expensive one, but the most expensive solid state guitar amp in the WORLD! can NOT compete with a GOOD tube amp. That JC120 is considered the most clean amp in the world, but it still has NO life. Granted color on a guitar signal is different from a mic, but......
If one were to want to hear a GOOD tube preamp, what would be a good model to check out.
LocusLarsen
New member
I looked on the price list yesterday and he must have upped the price of the TB6 because it is listed as $950
R
Recording Engineer
Moderator
"Can I record more than one track at a time if I use an A/D converter into my digital input on my 1680."
With an outboard 2-ch. or more A/D converter, you can record up to 2 tracks at one time into the digital inputs of your 1680; as I believe a stereo digital input is the maximum the 1680 has. As for whether or not the analog inputs (the inputs with an internal A/D conveter) can be used at the same time as the digital inputs, (so that you can record more than 2 tracks at a time when also using the stereo digital inputs), I don't know. I've never owned a 1680. But, I'd suspect you could use up to 6 analog inputs at the same time as the digital inputs because the inputs may have to be manuallly routed internally to tracks (maybe). But, I'd imagine the manual would tell you.
"Aren't all mic cables balanced!?!"
No. Some cables advertised a "microphone cable" are simply Female XLR-to-Male 1/4" TS (Tip-Sleeve).
"Back to the first question, Is it nessesary to drop a grand on an A/D converter. I do need it to be open for a good deal of multitracking when I find my way into protools and external mixing boards and the lot. I have not doubt that A/D can keep track of seperate tracks and split them up in the roland, but can they?"
I'm not sure I follow your question. But as a note, a good high-quality 2-ch. A/D converter (such as the Lucid 9624) will still be very useful and a "very good idea" even when you get into using Protools.
"But I was looking and notice that the TB10 was almost more suited to me. Two mic Pres with 1/4" inputs and XLR. For 950. The TB6 is 1000."
Read the descriptions of the TB-6 and TB-10 and see what the difference is. No doubt, the TB-6 will be a better buy for most people. By the way, it appeares the TB-10 is actually $45 more expensive than the TB-6.
"The question about wanting to try it first...He could have simply said -
We custom build and dont have extra units, they are not available in stores."
No doubt it'd be nice if he could just say that and leave it at that! BUT, unfortunantely, there are the few "naysayers", as he calls them, who have NEVER seen or heard a DaviSound product and simply won't except that or leave it at that. They go-on about why won't DaviSound send any of their gear to "reviewers"? What are they afraid of? What are they hiding? Hence the need for all the extra "crap" so to speak. I remember when the website didn't have all that. But, it was put in there as to reduce those types of emails. Although, I have to say, those people probably refuse to read the website anyhow! BUT, I was the one to request this part as it's such a GREAT "Oh So True" story!:
http://www.davisound.com/NewsArchives.html#NAY
"But I still want to hear one!"
Cool... Whelp, I told you how that was possible...
"As for tubes...Obviously.....a cheap tube is not as good as an expensive one,"
That may or may not be true, but I guarantee the differences in cuircut design and build quality is going to FAR exceed the differences in the quality of tubes used; when it comes to what actually comes out of the Output of the unit. That's NOT to say that tube selection is any less important, but you'd be amazed how much new crap is out there now days which incorporate the use of a voltage starved tube in its circuit simply because the marketing department ("team") said it must! You know, there's some AMAZING engineers out there in these big companys designing this crap! It's not the engineer's fault. Quite frankly, it's not the big corporation's fault. It's our fault! Making crap for cheap is where the money is at right now because that's what's in demand! So, they're providing that!
"but the most expensive solid state guitar amp in the WORLD! can NOT compete with a GOOD tube amp."
This may or may not be true when it comes to guitar amps (I'm not much into that aspect of it all), but I have a feeling you'd be surprised. However, your statement certainly DOESN'T apply when it comes to music recording pro audio gear! You'd be extremely hard-pressed to find any engineer who would tell you a Neve or API (just 2 examples) does not compete with a good tube preamp. And that applies A LOT further than microphone preamps! It's an "apples/oranges thing". No more, no less. It's a very universal view.
"If one were to want to hear a GOOD tube preamp, what would be a good model to check out."
Manley Labs' preamps are top-notch. D.W. Fearn's preamp is absolutely superb. The DaviSound TB-1 has an extremely great character. A well maintained old Telefunken/ TAB V-72 or V-76 (or a new TAB-Funkenwerk V72) is highly regarded. A Groove Tubes Viper will kick your ass. These companies are prime examples of the smaller (some VERY small), tightly knit manufacturers who design and build high-quality gear without compromise (no man upstairs crunching numbers) and that simple fact is probably one of the main reasons why they're able to keep alive!
None "better" than the other. Simply "different". Somtimes, MAY be or probably "better suited" for "this or that" or coupled with "this or that" in THIS particular case! As the more we use and get use to a piece of gear, the better we're able to predict the outcome for the particular situation.
With an outboard 2-ch. or more A/D converter, you can record up to 2 tracks at one time into the digital inputs of your 1680; as I believe a stereo digital input is the maximum the 1680 has. As for whether or not the analog inputs (the inputs with an internal A/D conveter) can be used at the same time as the digital inputs, (so that you can record more than 2 tracks at a time when also using the stereo digital inputs), I don't know. I've never owned a 1680. But, I'd suspect you could use up to 6 analog inputs at the same time as the digital inputs because the inputs may have to be manuallly routed internally to tracks (maybe). But, I'd imagine the manual would tell you.
"Aren't all mic cables balanced!?!"
No. Some cables advertised a "microphone cable" are simply Female XLR-to-Male 1/4" TS (Tip-Sleeve).
"Back to the first question, Is it nessesary to drop a grand on an A/D converter. I do need it to be open for a good deal of multitracking when I find my way into protools and external mixing boards and the lot. I have not doubt that A/D can keep track of seperate tracks and split them up in the roland, but can they?"
I'm not sure I follow your question. But as a note, a good high-quality 2-ch. A/D converter (such as the Lucid 9624) will still be very useful and a "very good idea" even when you get into using Protools.
"But I was looking and notice that the TB10 was almost more suited to me. Two mic Pres with 1/4" inputs and XLR. For 950. The TB6 is 1000."
Read the descriptions of the TB-6 and TB-10 and see what the difference is. No doubt, the TB-6 will be a better buy for most people. By the way, it appeares the TB-10 is actually $45 more expensive than the TB-6.
"The question about wanting to try it first...He could have simply said -
We custom build and dont have extra units, they are not available in stores."
No doubt it'd be nice if he could just say that and leave it at that! BUT, unfortunantely, there are the few "naysayers", as he calls them, who have NEVER seen or heard a DaviSound product and simply won't except that or leave it at that. They go-on about why won't DaviSound send any of their gear to "reviewers"? What are they afraid of? What are they hiding? Hence the need for all the extra "crap" so to speak. I remember when the website didn't have all that. But, it was put in there as to reduce those types of emails. Although, I have to say, those people probably refuse to read the website anyhow! BUT, I was the one to request this part as it's such a GREAT "Oh So True" story!:
http://www.davisound.com/NewsArchives.html#NAY
"But I still want to hear one!"
Cool... Whelp, I told you how that was possible...
"As for tubes...Obviously.....a cheap tube is not as good as an expensive one,"
That may or may not be true, but I guarantee the differences in cuircut design and build quality is going to FAR exceed the differences in the quality of tubes used; when it comes to what actually comes out of the Output of the unit. That's NOT to say that tube selection is any less important, but you'd be amazed how much new crap is out there now days which incorporate the use of a voltage starved tube in its circuit simply because the marketing department ("team") said it must! You know, there's some AMAZING engineers out there in these big companys designing this crap! It's not the engineer's fault. Quite frankly, it's not the big corporation's fault. It's our fault! Making crap for cheap is where the money is at right now because that's what's in demand! So, they're providing that!
"but the most expensive solid state guitar amp in the WORLD! can NOT compete with a GOOD tube amp."
This may or may not be true when it comes to guitar amps (I'm not much into that aspect of it all), but I have a feeling you'd be surprised. However, your statement certainly DOESN'T apply when it comes to music recording pro audio gear! You'd be extremely hard-pressed to find any engineer who would tell you a Neve or API (just 2 examples) does not compete with a good tube preamp. And that applies A LOT further than microphone preamps! It's an "apples/oranges thing". No more, no less. It's a very universal view.
"If one were to want to hear a GOOD tube preamp, what would be a good model to check out."
Manley Labs' preamps are top-notch. D.W. Fearn's preamp is absolutely superb. The DaviSound TB-1 has an extremely great character. A well maintained old Telefunken/ TAB V-72 or V-76 (or a new TAB-Funkenwerk V72) is highly regarded. A Groove Tubes Viper will kick your ass. These companies are prime examples of the smaller (some VERY small), tightly knit manufacturers who design and build high-quality gear without compromise (no man upstairs crunching numbers) and that simple fact is probably one of the main reasons why they're able to keep alive!
None "better" than the other. Simply "different". Somtimes, MAY be or probably "better suited" for "this or that" or coupled with "this or that" in THIS particular case! As the more we use and get use to a piece of gear, the better we're able to predict the outcome for the particular situation.
T
The Axis
Member
Thanks.
The guitar is a one-of-a-kind, built by a friend of mine who is not really a guitar builder, but is an anal-retentive wood craftsman !
It is a standard Martin Dreadnaught size, with a cutaway. Brazilian Rosewood back and sides, and Engleman Spruce Top. The neck is a Carvin electric bolt-on. The bracing pattern is copied from Breedlove. Standarad polyurethane spray-on finish, and a "Bridge- Doctor" installed.
It really has THE tone ! I don't know exactly why. It just got the magical combination of brightness, projection, and warm midrange complexity. I suspect that the polyurethane tames the rosewood/Spruce slightly.
R
roshi
New member
Acoustic Guital Mic
Personally, I use a Groove Tube GT66 (tube mic) followed by a Focusrite Penta preamp and compressor. This is really a vocal setup...but I have had good luck going into Roland 890's and 1880's with it
The Shure Beta87 gives a true sound also.
I mic midrange Martins ($2000) like the 16RGT series as well as old Guild Jumbos J and F series (6's and 12's).
Personally, I use a Groove Tube GT66 (tube mic) followed by a Focusrite Penta preamp and compressor. This is really a vocal setup...but I have had good luck going into Roland 890's and 1880's with it
The Shure Beta87 gives a true sound also.
I mic midrange Martins ($2000) like the 16RGT series as well as old Guild Jumbos J and F series (6's and 12's).
P
producerkid
New member
This is completely unrelated to the topic but I just wanted to make a quick comment. I came across this post in search of something else but I read alot of it thinking "you know this is some really useful, informative stuff here", then I realized it was from 4 years ago.
WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO THIS BOARD???!!!
This place was fucking killer when I first stumbled across it. Always something useful around the corner and I used to love to get on here and throw around ideas with everybody. But within the past year or so it seems like everything has kinda gone to the shitter. I cant even get halfway through a thread without some dipshit railing it before I get anything useful from it. Can we start making records again? Afterall I thought thats why we were here, to make records not to ridicule and bash others who are TRYING to make records.
Now dont think I'm being one sided. There are just as many newcomers that are equally guilty. Dont just come in here and start talking shit and asking questions you know have been answered or covered before in MULTIPLE threads if not at least one. Stop being lazy and do a little work and more importantly STOP EXPECTING TALENT TO JUST END UP ON YOUR FUCKING DOORSTEP.
One more thing......goes for everybody..... If you have nothing useful to say or just cant help your over-opinionated self then dont bother posting or at least take it to the Cave. lol
Sorry for the rant I just felt like having my own opinion like everyone else. lol
WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO THIS BOARD???!!!
This place was fucking killer when I first stumbled across it. Always something useful around the corner and I used to love to get on here and throw around ideas with everybody. But within the past year or so it seems like everything has kinda gone to the shitter. I cant even get halfway through a thread without some dipshit railing it before I get anything useful from it. Can we start making records again? Afterall I thought thats why we were here, to make records not to ridicule and bash others who are TRYING to make records.
Now dont think I'm being one sided. There are just as many newcomers that are equally guilty. Dont just come in here and start talking shit and asking questions you know have been answered or covered before in MULTIPLE threads if not at least one. Stop being lazy and do a little work and more importantly STOP EXPECTING TALENT TO JUST END UP ON YOUR FUCKING DOORSTEP.
One more thing......goes for everybody..... If you have nothing useful to say or just cant help your over-opinionated self then dont bother posting or at least take it to the Cave. lol
Sorry for the rant I just felt like having my own opinion like everyone else. lol
S
Soundmind??
New member
You said that you were serious about good sound. That means that you will need a "serious" signal path from the sound source to the digital world. What this means is that you can't get by with a cheap mic, cheap cable, cheap pre, cheap A/D converter....cheap anything. You also don't need to spend $15000 on a Protools rig either. For excellent accoustic guitar there have been numerous good recomendation on mics (AKG 414, Neumann KM184, Shure KSM44) and with good stereo placement they will do a great job! There are numerous pre's from $700 to $5k that will do good, if you get cheap on the A/D converters, you will miss important detail the accoustic instruments offer. You can probably go cheap on any of these items if your music is distorted, compressed to the max, loud stuff...but for that clear, crisp, harmonics rich accoustic sound, all links in the chain need to be strong!
If you have to "budget" anything, I think you could get by the the AKG 414 or Shure KSM44 and a pair of MXL 603's till you can save up for the Neumann, Josephson, Shure, or other good matched pair of SDCs at $800-1200 per pair.
I have used Shure KSM 109's at about $400 per pair with good results also.
If you have to "budget" anything, I think you could get by the the AKG 414 or Shure KSM44 and a pair of MXL 603's till you can save up for the Neumann, Josephson, Shure, or other good matched pair of SDCs at $800-1200 per pair.
I have used Shure KSM 109's at about $400 per pair with good results also.
J
Jahn
New member
warm and full of life - Shure SM57 to a M-Audio DMP3 preamp with the right mic placement - I like it near the neck since my Guild F30 can have a bit of midrange honk.
NOT warm and full of life - the Fishman Rare Earth soundhole pickup, D/I to the DMP3. pee-yew.
Now that we all agree that mics destroy pickups (no big mystery there) it'll be fun to progress to the point where i'm moving on to large diaphragm condenser mics with tube preamps. however, for me it's an incremental thing, as i gain more experience with getting the most of what i already have. eventually i might go for the $1k biz, but it's like a guitar for me - when you're just starting to learn, maybe a cheaper but solid axe is best - something that won't scare you off learning. later, you shell out the big bucks once you're committed. that's my approach anyhow!
NOT warm and full of life - the Fishman Rare Earth soundhole pickup, D/I to the DMP3. pee-yew.
Now that we all agree that mics destroy pickups (no big mystery there) it'll be fun to progress to the point where i'm moving on to large diaphragm condenser mics with tube preamps. however, for me it's an incremental thing, as i gain more experience with getting the most of what i already have. eventually i might go for the $1k biz, but it's like a guitar for me - when you're just starting to learn, maybe a cheaper but solid axe is best - something that won't scare you off learning. later, you shell out the big bucks once you're committed. that's my approach anyhow!
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