I Know - new mix

[toad_uk]

Feedback on my earlier said my drums where boxy and muddy and the kick was low. I tried a fix eq the whole mix last time, this time I've remixed and eq'd the drums and add some parallel compression to the snare and kick. i'd much appreaciate some feedback please. Many thanks in advance.

Artful Jester's sounds on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
i-know-ii-norm

http://soundcloud.com/artful-jester/i-know-iii version with guitars not panned as wide (please see post below)

 

[reganito]

I love this style first off. The vibrato on the leads is very cool. It sounds very bright, which is something I can't achieve for the life of me. My guitars are always really dark. Maybe just a little more thump for the bass? My monitors don't reproduce bass very well so that may be subjective. I like it.

The improvement in drums over version 2 is incredible.

 

[dainbramage]

Holy s**t dude your style is amazing. You really have the psychedelic 60's feeling going there. There is something missing though, and I'm suspecting it's got something to do with panning. How did you pan your tracks? It sounds a little thin.

Your playing is absolutely incredible. Love your use of that E7#9 chord.

 

[toad_uk]

Thanks a lot guys, that means a lot to me. Glad you liked the highs reganito, that's something I've been working on as my other mixes have been muddy. I think the difference on the guitars was a 2-3 db boost at 2k on one and 3k on the other. I was lacking bass as well, almost no kick. I boosted that, but I did back off a bit.

Dainbramage - My monitors are close together, and often things sound OK there, and on headphones, I like to hear things in stereo, but when I get it on my hi-fi in the living room they do sound wrong. Drums are kick and snare centre, overheads full left and right, bass guitar, vocals, lead centre, two guitars panned left and right, wide, but not hard. Maybe I'm panning the guitars too wide?

Thanks again guys

 

[toad_uk]

I've tried a new mix with the guitars not panned as wide. I took a listen to a few CDs and noticed that things are not panned quite as wide as I thought. Would appreciate any comments. Thanks

I Know III by Artful Jester on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

 

[JimmyS1969]

Man, you do have some really cool songs man. I'd love to throw a drum track down for ya sometime.

 

[robgreen]

This sounds great - some nice Cream/Hendrix stuff going on. I got nothing to add in the way of improvement, but I listened and liked it.

 

[Curtis racist]

You have skills

 

[arcadeko]

Cool stuff man. Nice guitar work there. I think I would bring up the solo just a bit around 3:30 - 3:34

Got a great groove going on that tune.

 

[toad_uk]

Thanks for your all your comments guys, it's becasue of comments from you guys and others like you that I've been able to improve my stuff.

I think the less wide panning has improved, and I think the comment about the lead is right. When I figure how to get was out of my vs I would like to hear what drums you do for this track jimmy. The cream/hendrix thing is what I was going for, so glad that was noticed as well.

 

[Whatmysay]

This is a great track and really captures the Cream/Clapton sound well. People have been mentioning the panning - I don't think it is so much that as the reverb isn't providing the glue you need. What are you doing as it sounds like the main guitars are in a slightly different place to the drums. The bite of the snare and foot is what is lacking - do you have a transient shaper or can you do drum replacement on your DAW and drop in a transients sample behind the snare & foot?

Great song and excellent playing

Burt

 

[toad_uk]

Thanks for your comments Whaymysay

"What are you doing as it sounds like the main guitars are in a slightly different place to the drums."

This has been said about another track I posted here. Part of the problem is only having 8 tracks, so I have to mix the drums and bounce them. Then I'm probably using a different reverb in the main mix, to what I used on the drum bounce.

I also have to add that the kit cost me £20. The wirey thing on the snare is held on by a piece of string. I've not tuned them, and there are some lugs missing as well.

I could have mic'ed them better, I have since had a better kick sound with a different position on another song. The kick also has a felt beater so that probably accounts for the lack of bite on the kick.

I'm using a Roland VS. Transient shaper Whoosh, I'm afraid I've not even heard of one.

When you talk of dropping a sample behind the snare and kick. originally I programmed a drum track on my Yahaha SY85, and midi synced that to VS whilst I recorded the scratch tracks, vocals and leads. Then I replaced the scratch tracks and added live drums. I could sync to the original programmed drums, just leaving the kick and snare and mix them in. Is that basically what you mean? Isn't that cheating though . I'm afraid I could loose my 60's/70's vibe doing that.

 

[JimmyS1969]

Thanks for your comments Whaymysay

"What are you doing as it sounds like the main guitars are in a slightly different place to the drums."

This has been said about another track I posted here. Part of the problem is only having 8 tracks, so I have to mix the drums and bounce them. Then I'm probably using a different reverb in the main mix, to what I used on the drum bounce.

I also have to add that the kit cost me £20. The wirey thing on the snare is held on by a piece of string. I've not tuned them, and there are some lugs missing as well.

I could have mic'ed them better, I have since had a better kick sound with a different position on another song. The kick also has a felt beater so that probably accounts for the lack of bite on the kick.

I'm using a Roland VS. Transient shaper Whoosh, I'm afraid I've not even heard of one.

When you talk of dropping a sample behind the snare and kick. originally I programmed a drum track on my Yahaha SY85, and midi synced that to VS whilst I recorded the scratch tracks, vocals and leads. Then I replaced the scratch tracks and added live drums. I could sync to the original programmed drums, just leaving the kick and snare and mix them in. Is that basically what you mean? Isn't that cheating though . I'm afraid I could loose my 60's/70's vibe doing that.

A transient shaper would be a plugin that works on a computer based DAW. They allow some control over the attack of the sound without compression. IMO, you should really go the DAW route soon.

'Dropping samples' would also only be possible with a DAW. The idea behind using samples, is that you can get an isolated 'sample' of a real drum, without the bleed that you get from live drums. You can work with them with more detail that is not possible with live mics in a not so wonderful room. Loosing the '60's/70's vibe is not necessarily an issue if that is what you use the samples to achieve. You are only making up for not having a room/studio/gear that was used in that era to achieve those sounds.

Once again, you are limited by your VS to record only sounds in your environment. If I did drum tracks for you, I would be going for the sound you are looking for. Or, I could throw down some metal drums for your good songs and ruin them if you would like? lol!

 

[Greg_L]

The drums are a disaster, which is a waste because the rest sounds pretty good. If you're not gonna bother with tuning em or even have all the lugs in place I'm not gonna bother commenting on them. Too much guitar wanking to be interesting for me, but the tones sound pretty good.

 

[heatmiser]

I really like the rhythm guitar tone and the bass as well. The vocals are well captured.

The drums sound kind of thin and/or small compared to what the guitar riffs suggest this tune would want in terms of percussive energy.

Something about the lead tone dispelled the retro vibe a bit. Did you have a slight chorus on there or something? I dunno, there's just this metallic quality to it didn't seem entirely in keeping with the other sounds.

I did very much enjoy some of the riffs though and thought the vocals and stringed instruments were mixed very well.

 

[toad_uk]

Hi guys. Thanks for the positive comments. As regards the negatives -

Greg - I take it your a drummer, I suppose it's a bit like someone coming on and saying, have a liten to this, I only know two chords, have three strings on my guitar, a couple of missing frets, and my speakers have a cardboard box for a cab. Oh yeh, and what are those little pegs for on the head?

I really do appreciate what you're saying, but Its not a matter of not being bothered. I've not been playing drums very long, and I can't afford to go out and buy a better kit. Can't afford new heads, replace the lugs which are broken, and becasue of missing lugs tuning would be difficult and like I say, I've not been playing long so tuning is still something I'm learning about. It's a bit like expecting a nube to set his own action and intonation, but I'm glad you liked the rest.

Thanks for the education Jimmy. Same thing goes for computer based DAW - the computer I mixed down to is old and wouldn't cope with DAW, and the lack of pennies means that's not an option at the moment. As regards metal drums - sometimes I think it would be easier to do stuff with modern production than retro, so I may take you up on that sometime .

Heatmiser - Yeh there's a flanger on the lead. I was going for the sound hendrix had in House Burnin' Down. I've done a version where the guitar pans around and you can hear the similarities more on that (in sound, not in playing of course).

Right - where's that drum key?

 

[kcearl]

man i have a selection of old pebbles albums and other psychedelic compilations and this sounds like its off one of them...even the crappy sounding drums


i really like it dude


yes the drums could sound better but i think the playing is fine for this (maybe a little tighter in the final quarter)...you know you could programme software and it would sound better but it would ruin the vibe completely


theres a few normal-fi artists in here that i really like, Vomit hat steve, and arcadecko, and now you...polishing this would lose its appeal imo

prolly not what you ant to hear but its just one opinion

thanks for sharing

 

[toad_uk]

man i have a selection of old pebbles albums and other psychedelic compilations and this sounds like its off one of them...even the crappy sounding drums


i really like it dude


yes the drums could sound better but i think the playing is fine for this (maybe a little tighter in the final quarter)...you know you could programme software and it would sound better but it would ruin the vibe completely


theres a few normal-fi artists in here that i really like, Vomit hat steve, and arcadecko, and now you...polishing this would lose its appeal imo

prolly not what you ant to hear but its just one opinion

thanks for sharing

Thanks . That is what I want to hear. Glad you like it. I want to improve the drums, but I'd rather do it with EQ and compression. The original mixes of these songs had programmed drums. Part of the reason for redoing these songs is to hone my drum playing/recording skills and I just like the idea of having live drums. I've no objection to programming and I do have some synthy/drum machine type songs as well, in fact in the past I've sometimes had to convince people that I'd used a drum machine and not live drums.

I've been listening to the drums on some older recordings, which sound fine, but when you really listen, to get the sound, you realise that they often did sound a bit crappy.

Normal-fi - I like that.

As regards the tightness towards the end, well it was the 60s, the drummer was probably stoned.

 

[kcearl]

Thanks . That is what I want to hear. Glad you like it. I want to improve the drums, but I'd rather do it with EQ and compression. The original mixes of these songs had programmed drums. Part of the reason for redoing these songs is to hone my drum playing/recording skills and I just like the idea of having live drums. I've no objection to programming and I do have some synthy/drum machine type songs as well, in fact in the past I've sometimes had to convince people that I'd used a drum machine and not live drums.

I've been listening to the drums on some older recordings, which sound fine, but when you really listen, to get the sound, you realise that they often did sound a bit crappy.

Normal-fi - I like that.

As regards the tightness towards the end, well it was the 60s, the drummer was probably stoned.

lol yeah I get you....but if you are intentionally making it loose keep it that way...make that part of your sound..I like precision drums but only in context


I had one tune from some texas garage band and I was wondering why the drums sounded so bad in it...turns out it was just a guy rapping his knuckles off the floor....they wouldve ruined the tune if the stuck a drummer in, it was always "that tune with the weird drumming sound"

 

[Greg_L]

I want to improve the drums, but I'd rather do it with EQ and compression. .

The thing is though, you can't improve drums that don't sound good to begin with. If it were that easy, no one would bother with tuning and replacing heads. Once you track bad drums, you're stuck with them unless you do sample replacement.