i hate computers

  • Thread starter Thread starter eeb
  • Start date Start date
E

eeb

New member
I've gotta admit.. I am seriously considering selling all my digital gear and just going with an analogue set up after my computer just died on me. Right now i borrowed a computer but i'm going to have to buy a new one so i'll likely be looking at around 1200$ at least for a new computer.. I've always loved analogue recordings although I don't have much experience with it and am not sure what i'd even need to get started (aside from obvioius things like the reels, mixer and some outboard gear) maybe this is a good kick in the ass to just make the plunge into the analogue world.. if i sold some of my gear and didn't buy a new computer (obviously i'd have to get a computer but i could probably make due with my g4 mac and i have cubase le already) i'd have a really modest budjet of around 2000 to get started.. not much i can do with that is there?
 
Let me say, as a person who started dinking around on 4-8 track cassette analog, then went to a Roland VS-1680 digital, then to a digi-001 and then digi-002, And I always wondered why most of my cassette recordings sounded better than what I was doing on the digi. So I recently got into the true analog of 4-8 track reel to reels. As long as you get a setup with enough room(tracks) you'll wonder why you ever went digital. I have.
 
$2000 might get you a decent 8-track 1/2" set up, or maybe a 16-track 1" if you didn't buy any outboard and didn't go for a top of the line mixing console. Decks themselves are cheap as hell these days, but there are hidden costs. Plus it might take you awhile to find a good deck in working condition. Worse yet you may get stuck with a deck that breaks down on you alot, and that will piss you off even more.

Were you running a Mac or a PC platform? You can probably put together a pretty fast machine for under a grand if you are on a PC platform, possibly even re-use some parts from your computer that crapped out on you. Use the extra $$ to get a 1/2" 8 track deck and mixer and run a hybrid setup.

tape is cool, but digital gives you more options on a budget. were you unsatisfied with the sound of digital?
 
$2,000 should be enough for sure to get started.

Although I have (too) much gear to list, here is my stripped down basic set up.

Fostex R8 (8 Tracks on 1/4" tape) Reel to Reel (Mint Shape) $350.00
or
Tascam 238 (8 tracks on cassette- sounds great for 8 tracks on a tiny cassette tape width) with remote (pretty much mint) $210.00

Alesis Studio One Monitors (New /Mint) $200.00

Alesis Studio 24 Mixing Board (great for an analog set up/ Mint) $175.00

Samson Servo 70 amp (Brand New) $120.00

That's only a little over $800.00 and I'm pretty happy with the sound I get. I collected most if not all of this stuff off of ebay over time. I don't know how Big your set up needs to be or how many tracks you need, but again, It's great for me. Of course you have to consider all the costs of the Mics, instruments, headphones, other various junk you'll need, but I didn't mention that because that's all stuff I'm sure you already have. Also you could just start super small and get a Tascam 488 portastudio (8 tracks on cassette with built in mixer section) around $150 to $200. This is an option if you just want to lay down some tracks and tinker around with analog. This is just to get your tongue wet. You'd probably be pleased with that.
 
$2000 might get you a decent 8-track 1/2" set up, or maybe a 16-track 1" if you didn't buy any outboard and didn't go for a top of the line mixing console. Decks themselves are cheap as hell these days, but there are hidden costs. Plus it might take you awhile to find a good deck in working condition. Worse yet you may get stuck with a deck that breaks down on you alot, and that will piss you off even more.

Were you running a Mac or a PC platform? You can probably put together a pretty fast machine for under a grand if you are on a PC platform, possibly even re-use some parts from your computer that crapped out on you. Use the extra $$ to get a 1/2" 8 track deck and mixer and run a hybrid setup.

tape is cool, but digital gives you more options on a budget. were you unsatisfied with the sound of digital?


How exactly would run tape and digital together.. I'm always a little confused on how exactly a hybrid setup like that would work..


I was thinking about routing my digital files out to a board and mixing out of the box which is what i thought a hybrid set was originally.. until i heard of people doing this.. do you record analogue and dump the files to you computer? is that all the tape is used for?
 
yeah, basically I will track some stuff to tape, maybe fill up all eight tracks with drums & bass, then bring the tracks into the digital world (you need an interface with at least 8 ins), overdub more tracks, and mix ITB (I use Reaper right now). I have experimented with different analog formats, 4 track cassette, 8 track cassette, now finally I'm up to 8 track 1/2" decks, and I'm pretty happy with the sounds I get. I like the way drums sound to tape WAY better than direct to disk.

You can also bounce tracks off of tape on the way in to disk if you have a three head deck (better than crappy digital tape emulation plug-ins)... Or you can fill up tape tracks with drums, bounce that to disk, do some edits, add some EQ/compression/reverb and bring a stereo mix of your drums back to two tracks on the deck and fill up the rest with overdubs on your deck... or you can break out stems from your computer to your deck and mix/sum in the analog world... there are really so many possibilities with a decent hybrid setup. its pretty cool.

What's your digital set up right now? If you're used to complex projects with lots of plugins and high track counts, you might find simple 8 track R2R recording a bit limiting. you would need a good bit of outboard gear to even get close to the capabilities of modest software. the jump to 16 track decks seems a big jump in price of the decks themselves, plus the cost of tape...
 
I've gotta admit.. I am seriously considering selling all my digital gear and just going with an analogue...

...How exactly would run tape and digital together.. I'm always a little confused on how exactly a hybrid setup like that would work...

The first question is always… what kind of music do you record?

Synchronization was the core of the early hybrid analog/MIDI/digital studio. Because of the personal computer the concept has largely been lost in the home/project studio, particularly among the 35 and younger crowd or newcomers to recording of any age. In the 80’s and early 90’s the hybrid studio was analog/MIDI. Affordable digital recording was added to the mix in the 90’s. Some recordists never did dabble in MIDI, but went straight from analog tape to digital tape and later ADAT, MDHR and DAW.

The most effective arraignment for an analog purist (like me) is to simply sync everything together as a system for tracking and mixdown. The system revolves around the analog multi-track. Digital recording has a support role and is used sparingly when used at all. In my system I can use digital to double vocals, guitars and other instruments. The digital tracks stay in the background. I don’t normally transfer from analog multi-track to digital multi-track, but rather run everything in sync. One reason is that I don’t do any digital editing (for serious work). I treat the digital medium like I do tape, using it only as a recording device… choosing sonics over sorcery.

I have a lot of outboard gear, including MIDI capable synths and sound modules (analog and digital). I still use the same hardware MIDI sequencer that I did in 1987, which is a testament to the build quality and reliability of the era. Even without using Pro Tools I have up to 16 virtual MIDI tracks plus drum machine with separate outputs for individual treatment of each drum. My mixers give me 34 simultaneous channels… 24 with EQ and 10 more with just level and panning control.

My multi-track is ½” 8-track. Since one track is used for sync code that leaves me 7 analog tracks, but I will bounce tracks (no more than one generation), which gives me more like 12 to 16 tracks for acoustic instruments and vocals, depending on how I bounce. If I need a Mormon Tabernacle choir or something in the background I will use Pro tools for extra voices in addition to what I already have on tape. Everything is mixed down to 2-track (half-track) ¼” reel-to-reel or Super Beta Hi-Fi. That mix enters the digital realm for the first time at the last step through a stand-alone CD recorder. You could use a good soundcard as well, but I just happen to think this CD recorder (Fostex CR300) is the cats meow, sonically speaking.

Adding analog to an existing digital studio has some benefit, Whether you track to analog first before transferring to DAW, or start with digital and mix to analog 2-track… or both. However, if you really want to set your recording paradigm on its ear and reap the greatest benefit you can start over… build your system around analog and add everything else to it as needed.

Many younger/newer recordists struggle with integrating analog into their digital systems because they approach it with a view to using analog as an effect. Of course its hard not to have a digital perspective if that’s what you started with. But even worse these days… it’s not as much a digital vs. analog issue as an amateur vs. professional issue. The DAW has allowed amateurism to flourish and even become the new (lower) standard by which we measure quality in the music industry.

It doesn’t take that much these days to have a good analog system:

- A decent ½” 8-track or 16-track reel-to-reel (cassette 4 or 8-track may work as well)
- A good mixer with enough channels to handle the multi-track, outboard effects and MIDI devices.
- Hardware effects processor/reverb or two
- Hardware compressor or two
- Lots of cables of various kinds
- A couple noise gates

Most of all knowledge and talent.

:)
 
Take it from me Beck makes total sense from my perspective. I went digital in the box for a while and got nothing really done or finished afterwards as regards my music. Used to use tape & desk to DAT before the above change.

I ended up getting my old Fostex E-16 serviced & went back to my Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 24/8/2 inline desk & now use digital for backup & supporting / backing tracks.

I did plan to mix down to a Studer A807 but DHL decided to wreck in in transit before it got to me! What a bunch of *(^&*(%$%^£&&^£s!
 
The first question is always… what kind of music do you record?

Synchronization was the core of the early hybrid analog/MIDI/digital studio. Because of the personal computer the concept has largely been lost in the home/project studio, particularly among the 35 and younger crowd or newcomers to recording of any age. In the 80’s and early 90’s the hybrid studio was analog/MIDI. Affordable digital recording was added to the mix in the 90’s. Some recordists never did dabble in MIDI, but went straight from analog tape to digital tape and later ADAT, MDHR and DAW.

The most effective arraignment for an analog purist (like me) is to simply sync everything together as a system for tracking and mixdown. The system revolves around the analog multi-track. Digital recording has a support role and is used sparingly when used at all. In my system I can use digital to double vocals, guitars and other instruments. The digital tracks stay in the background. I don’t normally transfer from analog multi-track to digital multi-track, but rather run everything in sync. One reason is that I don’t do any digital editing (for serious work). I treat the digital medium like I do tape, using it only as a recording device… choosing sonics over sorcery.

I have a lot of outboard gear, including MIDI capable synths and sound modules (analog and digital). I still use the same hardware MIDI sequencer that I did in 1987, which is a testament to the build quality and reliability of the era. Even without using Pro Tools I have up to 16 virtual MIDI tracks plus drum machine with separate outputs for individual treatment of each drum. My mixers give me 34 simultaneous channels… 24 with EQ and 10 more with just level and panning control.

My multi-track is ½” 8-track. Since one track is used for sync code that leaves me 7 analog tracks, but I will bounce tracks (no more than one generation), which gives me more like 12 to 16 tracks for acoustic instruments and vocals, depending on how I bounce. If I need a Mormon Tabernacle choir or something in the background I will use Pro tools for extra voices in addition to what I already have on tape. Everything is mixed down to 2-track (half-track) ¼” reel-to-reel or Super Beta Hi-Fi. That mix enters the digital realm for the first time at the last step through a stand-alone CD recorder. You could use a good soundcard as well, but I just happen to think this CD recorder (Fostex CR300) is the cats meow, sonically speaking.

Adding analog to an existing digital studio has some benefit, Whether you track to analog first before transferring to DAW, or start with digital and mix to analog 2-track… or both. However, if you really want to set your recording paradigm on its ear and reap the greatest benefit you can start over… build your system around analog and add everything else to it as needed.

Many younger/newer recordists struggle with integrating analog into their digital systems because they approach it with a view to using analog as an effect. Of course its hard not to have a digital perspective if that’s what you started with. But even worse these days… it’s not as much a digital vs. analog issue as an amateur vs. professional issue. The DAW has allowed amateurism to flourish and even become the new (lower) standard by which we measure quality in the music industry.

It doesn’t take that much these days to have a good analog system:

- A decent ½” 8-track or 16-track reel-to-reel (cassette 4 or 8-track may work as well)
- A good mixer with enough channels to handle the multi-track, outboard effects and MIDI devices.
- Hardware effects processor/reverb or two
- Hardware compressor or two
- Lots of cables of various kinds
- A couple noise gates

Most of all knowledge and talent.

:)


thanks for all the advice.. You seem like you know a thing or two about this.. I did not think of reels as an effect at all.. I've recorded in studios that were both digital and all analogue.. I'm thinking that a hybrid set up would best suit me.. I'd like to do everything all analogue but realistically my budjet likely won't allow that.
 
this has been great reading, i am recording an album with a hybrid analogue/digital set up for the first time in january. the way i see it going is all main musical instrumantation is going on 16 tracks of analogue (drum kit, bass, acoustic and electric guitars, glockenspiel etc). and as the band have four vocal harmonies (all wanting double tracked) i will put them straight to digital. the analogue signals will all go digital also as it is going to be mixed on a computer, shame really but its a step better than last time.
though i do have a smaller project coming up where i will try to limit it to the 16 tracks and limited outboard gear, and maybe mix straight to cd (as someone mentioned earlier), thats if i can find the right cds anywhere any more.
 
Back
Top