How's this you think? (Micing Guitar Cab)

[LeeRosario]

As far as pre's available...I have a Chandler Germanium sitting in a box on the floor that I need to ship out. I recently sold it and am waiting on payment. I am going to replace it with an API Lunchbox with either a Great River MP-500NV or an API 512C.

For potential guitar mics, I only have a handful. 57, 609, 4033 (not really a guitar mic), i5, SM7...

Eh, well I wouldn't say there is such a thing as a "guitar mic". It's all in the ear of the beholder.

Good start, man. Now are you going to phase align these mics? Or did you have something else in mind? I personally used the 609 once and never cared to use it again.


Personally, the SM57 is the mic I go to 8 times out of 10 for guitar cabs, except it dosn't have enough of the low end resonance I want, so I usually pair it up with some sort of boundry mic off the back of the amp for those resonant tones.


Also, this is just me, but I always put my guitar cabs on cinder blocks. Don't ask me why, I just notice a great improvement in my low end when I lift it off the ground. Just passing on the information.


I notice you have some kind of treatment device in the area....


So far, it looks fine to me. I mean, another good trick I picked up is simply wearing your studio headphones to monitor your inputs and stretch it out far enough to where you can adjust your mics as you listen. You could start at the center of the cone and slowly work your way out until you found your perfect ratio of edgyness to smoothness.

For me, it ends up being just outside the edge of the cone, on axis and right up on the grill.

 

[Myriad_Rocker]

Good start, man. Now are you going to phase align these mics? Or did you have something else in mind?

I did the best I could with moving the mics around. There was only some slight phase where the mics, when inverted, didn't cancel each out totally.

Are you hearing some crazy phase that I'm not?

 

[bkkornaker]

for starters......ill always take an SM 57 and place it here........

its a simple start....and a "tried and true" great spot for an SM57, right up on the grill.

to add additional mics,.....keep your Sm57 there, and start placing a 2nd mic somewhere else on the grill.....while listening to the sound through headphones........

 

[LeeRosario]

Are you hearing some crazy phase that I'm not?

Not at all. I was only asking to ask, but it sounds fine. But on the subject of phase, on occasion, it might not be a bad thing to have a purposely mal-phased guitar to stand out from other guitar tracks. It sounds stupid, I know. Like say if you had two SM57s pointing at a spot both 45 degrees off axis, and perfectly opposite from each other. (Kind of like holding hedge clippers)

Generally, if I took that route, I'm thinking of lead guitar material. Solos and what not. Not so much your rhythm guitar stuff.

 

[Vagodeoz]

I think you just have to be aware that the more off-axis you go (the more away from the center of the speaker) the more basses you will get. So think what sound you are trying to get and think what you are going to record with that. If you are looking for a wall of sound type of distortion I would probably use only 2 mikes and makes them sound as different as possible (trying to make one mid based and one treble based, for example) and pan them hard.
If I was to record a solo/lead with that, I would use a main mic and a room mic.

 

[liv_rong]

your pictures remind me of the sound on sound issue about recording guitar cabs

 

[xstatic]

Myriad, no matter how you move all of those mics around you will never get them to cacnel completely with each other. They are different mics and have different responses in both speed and frequency. If you get the capsules lined up properly, phasing should not be a problem, but it will exist.

Lee, I used to choose a 57 8 out of 10 times. I have tried all of the other obvious options such as sennheiser 609 and 906, Audix I5 etc... A few years ago I picked up a Royer R121 though. Since I got that, it has been rare that I have pulled out an sm57 on a guitar cab.

 

[Adam P]

Don't dismiss the 4033 on guitar...I would probably choose it over the 57 or 609 9 out of 10 times, personally.

 

[Myriad_Rocker]

your pictures remind me of the sound on sound issue about recording guitar cabs

Ok?

Don't dismiss the 4033 on guitar...I would probably choose it over the 57 or 609 9 out of 10 times, personally.

That's the LDC I have on there. It sounds kind of nasally, for lack of better words, but I think it adds to the character of the guitar and lends itself to a more full-bodied sound when added with either the 609 or the 57.

To be honest, there's not a lot of difference between the sound of the 57 and the 609. The 609 sounds a bit thinner and maybe brighter but that could all be mic position.

Getting back to the sound clip I posted, do you think it might lend itself to the layered "wall of guitar" sound associated with modern rock guitar?

 

[chessrock]

Was that a "Rat" song you were demo'ing on that sound clip?


Cool!

.

 

[Sonixx]

My suggestion is to master one mic first. With a good source and mic placement, a 57 will do what you want.

 

[aerospace1]

After testing some stuff this afternoon, this is what I came up with...

I changed the mic positions. I have the 57 on the top right speaker, off axis. I have the e609 on the same speaker off axis, but not as much as the 57. I then put the 4033 on the left speaker, just a bit from the cone on the left side.

The mix is 609 & 4033 on the left, 57 on the right. Volume adjusted accordingly, of course.

Here's a sound clip. Please excuse the riff. It's the first thing that came out when I hit the record button. Also, it's not very loud, which was intentional.

Sound Clip, MP3, 192kbps

As far as pre's available...I have a Chandler Germanium sitting in a box on the floor that I need to ship out. I recently sold it and am waiting on payment. I am going to replace it with an API Lunchbox with either a Great River MP-500NV or an API 512C. I have not totally decided yet. Right now, I have the mics going through my pres on my RME FF800.

Cab is downstairs with 703 around it (pictured above). Cab and mics are plugged into a Pro Co snake that goes upstairs. Upstairs is the amp head, guitar, and DAW.

For potential guitar mics, I only have a handful. 57, 609, 4033 (not really a guitar mic), i5, SM7...

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I checked the phase of all the mics with each other. There is just a tad bit of phase. When I flipped the phase on any given mic in relation to another, there's just a bit that I can still hear. So, they don't totally cancel each other out...but I guess that'll be okay, right?

The recording sounded nice. The pan seperation of mics was nice. I would tweak that amp though, sounds like the guitar tone needs a little more "attitude". What kind of axe/pickups?

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Ok?
Getting back to the sound clip I posted, do you think it might lend itself to the layered "wall of guitar" sound associated with modern rock guitar?

I think this all depends on what you're going for. If you're going for the wall of guitars as kind of a pad, then this might work fine. If you want 'in your face' guitars where you hear more pick attack and articulation, then a single mic approach might work better, especially if you're double (or more) tracking them.

This multi-micing thing can sound thick, but the mids get a little 'mushy' IMO. The lows and highs can add together yielding a scooped sound with an inarticulate middle. This is kind of what I'm hearing in your clip anyway and it's usually the same as what I get when I multi mic.

4033 never really worked for me on guitar cabs. That 600Hz or so bump is too much for me. I use that mic on other stuff all the time though.

One thing's for sure, it doesn't hurt to track all these things and pull them from the mix if they're not working. I'd just make sure you have a solid sound from the 57 to go back to if the blending fails.

YMMV, all IMO.

 

[Myriad_Rocker]

Was that a "Rat" song you were demo'ing on that sound clip?


Cool!

.

What I could remember of it, yes.

The recording sounded nice. The pan seperation of mics was nice. I would tweak that amp though, sounds like the guitar tone needs a little more "attitude". What kind of axe/pickups?

Yes, I agree with you on the "attitude". More definition, right? I'm going for the compliment of the "wall of guitars" and the "in your face" sound. Kinda like Alter Bridge or something. The axe as a Gibson Les Paul, stock pickups (498R, whatever) through a Mesa Dual Recto and Mesa 4x12. I actually screwed up my Dual, which I'm going to post a thread on. I think I did something pretty stupid.

 

[LeeRosario]

Lee, I used to choose a 57 8 out of 10 times. I have tried all of the other obvious options such as sennheiser 609 and 906, Audix I5 etc... A few years ago I picked up a Royer R121 though. Since I got that, it has been rare that I have pulled out an sm57 on a guitar cab.

Yeah that's definitely a darker mic for me to use, but excellent response. It really just ends up being a personal choice thing I guess. I used the C414 on the hypercardiod setting for a long time, but I'd feel better trying out other condensers (and ribbons) until I find my defining sound for guitar cabs.


The SM57 is just kind of my Eddie Kramer standard until then.

 

[LeeRosario]

Getting back to the sound clip I posted, do you think it might lend itself to the layered "wall of guitar" sound associated with modern rock guitar?

Not so much in multiple micing as it is in the added passes of the same phrases. 10 Mics on one pass dosn't nessessarily sound better than 10 passes on one mic, if you know what I mean.


Not that you'd layer 10 different guitar tracks together. Well maybe if you're Billy Corgan

 

[Myriad_Rocker]

Not so much in multiple micing as it is in the added passes of the same phrases. 10 Mics on one pass dosn't nessessarily sound better than 10 passes on one mic, if you know what I mean.


Not that you'd layer 10 different guitar tracks together. Well maybe if you're Billy Corgan

Yeah, I know what you mean. My band has two guitarists and I was thinking of doubling each of our parts and maybe tripling or quadrupling them on the chorus and/or "soaring" parts. That in addition to reamping through several different amps to come up with a great sound. I think I might just audition the mics that I have and pick one that I really like. Or if I can't pick, record them all and maybe select one or two when it comes time to mix.

 

[LeeRosario]

Yeah, I know what you mean. My band has two guitarists and I was thinking of doubling each of our parts and maybe tripling or quadrupling them on the chorus and/or "soaring" parts. That in addition to reamping through several different amps to come up with a great sound. I think I might just audition the mics that I have and pick one that I really like. Or if I can't pick, record them all and maybe select one or two when it comes time to mix.

I know what you're saying...

You know, what's totally cool is to make all the passes you think you need to make it sound like you want. You could mix, EQ and match, or blend favorable traits of each mic into one cohesive track.

I used to blend an SM57 with a Beta 52 and it gave me some interesting tones on warmer cabs. I can't remember that model, but I tried it on a Fender 7 tube amp that I beleive was a vintage reissue (single cone, tweed fabric finish) and it just had this disgusting sound that was just beautiful.

I mean in the end, if it sounds like ass, you can always just mute out tracks and try a different approach. At the cost of what? A little extra harddrive space and a few more tracks. Which is always ok in my book when it comes to tracking.

 

[starbuck26]

I wonder if you've actually listened to see which speaker sounds the best? When --I originally read that in the guitar recording bible I found on here--can't remember the author--he mentioned that at some point, you've got to take your ear plugs out, and actually stick your noggin in the fuckin cabinet. He said it would instantly jump out at you which speaker sounds the best.

When I read that, I thought it was bullshit. But then I tried it, and instantly I was like "yeah, this one does sound better than the other." Just something to think about. It seemed your speaker choice was arbitrary.

He also mentioned that to test it with your head at full volume you make an instant decision, as if you are that close to the cab at the volume where you have total speaker involvement--i.e. everything vibrating harder than... you know --you can stand about a minute without damaging your hearing.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Yeah, I know what you mean. My band has two guitarists and I was thinking of doubling each of our parts and maybe tripling or quadrupling them on the chorus and/or "soaring" parts. That in addition to reamping through several different amps to come up with a great sound. I think I might just audition the mics that I have and pick one that I really like. Or if I can't pick, record them all and maybe select one or two when it comes time to mix.

Just another idea - you may want to try adding thickness by playing different parts, single lines, or different octaves during the choruses rather than having 8 identical tracks going. Sometimes all those mults just wash each other out. Feedback tracks are cool too.

Another interesting and relatively cheap guitar mic is the Heil PR30.