How's this mastering job?

[rayc]

I figured the ME would've cut the over loud bass freq & deal with whatever it is that's mushing the guitars.
can they do that sort of thing?

 

[noisewreck]

end of that opinion...I'd say the finish was so so... I think there are mix problems that can't be taken care of in mastering, and I say that because I can tell. So, I'd say the mastering was so so... because it didn't perform a miracle

Given the question (which was kinda assinine BTW) this is the best answer anyone could come up with.

 

[noisewreck]

What do you guys think of this mastering job? Just curious to see if anyone's hearing what I'm hearing......

http://plunder.com/03deead8b2

What do you think of my editing job? I think this is the best edited post ever.

 

[Lt. Bob]

If the car is bright and shiney, how much of it was due to the work done in the showroom, and how much was due to the polish the guy gave it when he got it home? You would not be able to tell.

Just to start an argument here ........... ........................ don't good mastering engineers say that ideally they want to do the least possible to make a recording sound good?

Let's say someone accidentally tracked and mixed a recording where it was perfect ...... levels all matched exactly ...... everything EQ'd great ..... no need for a little extra 'sparkle' on the overall sound.
Wouldn't a GOOD M.E. do nothing at all?

And wouldn't making the choice that you couldn't improve it in any way still be a mastering decision?

 

[gecko zzed]

Just to start an argument here ........... ........................ don't good mastering engineers say that ideally they want to do the least possible to make a recording sound good?

Let's say someone accidentally tracked and mixed a recording where it was perfect ...... levels all matched exactly ...... everything EQ'd great ..... no need for a little extra 'sparkle' on the overall sound.
Wouldn't a GOOD M.E. do nothing at all?

And wouldn't making the choice that you couldn't improve it in any way still be a mastering decision?

Yep . . . a good ME would know when to leave well enough alone, and the mixing job may have been so accomplished that the ME had no work to do. And the decision to do nothing is indeed a mastering decision. So, far from starting an argument, I totally agree.

The point you make is that when listening to an awesome recording, you are safe in concluding that the ME did an excellent job, whether in adding sheen to what was presented, or in exercising the option of doing nothing, both being sound ME decisions.

But, for all that, it still doesn't help with the original question. This is because the recording is not brilliant. It is not possible to tell, by listening to it alone, whether the ME did a great job in getting it to where it is (because the unmastered version was worse) or whether the ME actually made the recording worse than it was originally.

 

[Waltz Mastering]

Let's say someone accidentally tracked and mixed a recording where it was perfect ...... levels all matched exactly ...... everything EQ'd great ..... no need for a little extra 'sparkle' on the overall sound.
Wouldn't a GOOD M.E. do nothing at all?

Yes, Although very rare, these types of projects can sometimes be just as difficult and time consuming. I've seen it with singles but never albums. "yet".

In the end it might come down to just slight leveling, trimming tops and tails, assembly and qc, but the decision to do "no harm" is an important one. A/B level matched.

 

[leaningpine]

I'm going to go with this. I realize the Bass guitar is a little loud in some parts, mostly the high A that is played. The guitars in my opinion are not mushy,they're just not overly crunched like most of todays guitar sounds, the drums sound evenly mixed except for the ride cymbal has a little too much clang in it and the vocals could sound better if I had a $3,000 Neumann, but I don't have that kind of money.

The song is supposed to have a classic rock sound to it, like Boston mostly. It's mixed similar to the way Tom Scholz mixes which is heavy on Bass because the bass dances around alot in his songs, Along the lines of the arena rock bands of the late 70's. It's been mastered to sound like those CD's. When I play the song side by side with songs by Zep, Boston, The Who the mix and overall sound is similar to those CD's.

I compared my mix to the first Boston CD because it was recorded at his home so I figured the mixing situation was similar. I honestly don't hear any major problems with it considering it was recorded at home and not a pro studio.


Honestly I wish I could end this thread because it turned out pretty much like I thought it would turn out, a big arguement between members with not alot of help toward the original question. I've been on here for years, under a couple of different names and it's always been that way. I honestly don't know how the forum has lasted so long.....

 

[gecko zzed]

I'm going to go with this. I realize the Bass guitar is a little loud in some parts, mostly the high A that is played. The guitars in my opinion are not mushy,they're just not overly crunched like most of todays guitar sounds, the drums sound evenly mixed except for the ride cymbal has a little too much clang in it and the vocals could sound better if I had a $3,000 Neumann, but I don't have that kind of money.

The song is supposed to have a classic rock sound to it, like Boston mostly. It's mixed similar to the way Tom Scholz mixes which is heavy on Bass because the bass dances around alot in his songs, Along the lines of the arena rock bands of the late 70's. It's been mastered to sound like those CD's. When I play the song side by side with songs by Zep, Boston, The Who the mix and overall sound is similar to those CD's.

I compared my mix to the first Boston CD because it was recorded at his home so I figured the mixing situation was similar. I honestly don't hear any major problems with it considering it was recorded at home and not a pro studio.


Honestly I wish I could end this thread because it turned out pretty much like I thought it would turn out, a big arguement between members with not alot of help toward the original question. I've been on here for years, under a couple of different names and it's always been that way. I honestly don't know how the forum has lasted so long.....

End this thread? When there is still a whole mess of argumentation to get through? That would spoil all the fun.

If the thread turned out as you expected, i.e. "a big arguement between members with not alot of help toward the original question", one might wonder why you posted in the first place, specially as you've "been on here for years, under a couple of different names and it's always been that way".

But let's have a look at the original question:

What do you guys think of this mastering job?

The original question is, in fact, impossible to answer, because no-one can tell which bits were the consequence of mastering. But some people did comment, though not on the things you wanted to hear. They commented on the things they could hear, which could have been a consequence of mixing or of mastering.

I guess you were hoping for something like, "hey, that sounds alright. It's very similar to Boston." Sadly, no-one did, and your prowess at mastering goes un-noticed.

But, one of the very early suggestions was to take it to the MP3 clinic, where you are likely to get helpful comments.

Here is a selection taken from the clinic on a couple of contributions that I went to at random:

The whole mix has been pushed into clipping territory. What are you using to master/limit this mix? You might want to back off a bit on that.

Good job on your first effort. The levels are way too hot. You should aim for levels of around -18 dbfs on your meters when you record. If you overshoot, just put a trim plug as your first insert when you mix. This was THE most important lesson I had to learn to get mixes to sound right. Don't listen to all the B.S. floating around about using all the bits in your DAW. There is plenty of headroom to mix at reasonable levels, then bring it up in mastering.

This is a FANTASTIC work of art.

Just wanted to be the first to tell you.

I'm gonna find a pen, and come back and tell you exactly why I think that. Especially to help our cadre of newbs identify and apply all the devices you used.

OK, reading from my notes and transcribing: "Many of the important reasons this is a great song." A showcase!!!

The recording, panning, levels, performances: top notch; Using your own true voice.
There's a universally human theme. The composition reflects the mood of the lament.

I think the bass could rise 3db. The flange guitar in the chorus, standing in for vocal @:44, up 3db.



UNISON!!!! POWER!!! At :45-47 sec......that unison line with the bass and guitar is KILLER. Hook, counter-melody.....something to grab onto. A sub-theme. Excellent intuition there.

Getting right back to the verse @ :50 is genius...when you could have laid on that nice chorus. Unexpectedly brief...and back to work! Interesting. Left me wanting more chorus...couldn't wait for it to happen again. No fatigue.

Love the clean execution and mesh of the guitar R playing 2/4 figure against the piano R. Space, certitude, direction: and the off-beat ride cymbal is GREAT TEXTURE and FILLIGREE!!!

The harmony vox @ 1:38. NEW TURN!!!!! Dynamic build. NICE!!! ...but , wait: is that....

HORNS!!!!! YES!!!!!. A clean, funky, organized, punchy line to add to the mesh and build dynamics and more interest!!!! The picture is now a movie.

Change in feel @1:25. More goodness!!

And the eighth-note, two note angst-inducing, machine-like unison line ...piano R and guit L. Freakin' perfect...organized. Two notes, in UNISON, punching an EMOTION. To the point. !!!!

Shift down dynamics @ 1:38.....poignant bridge. More interest!!!!!

[would suggest the horns accompany last four bars of guitar solo]

Then...a fast, presto-chango from the pity=party in the bridge to REALITY...unexpectedly thrown in my face @ 1:54...like startlingly waking up from a daydream...which I think is what was intended!!!!!


At 3:23...while all the good groove continues to groove...there's this neat little communication between horns R and guitar L: unison for the first cycle...then a call-and-answer in the second. Just perfect enough to add to the groove, without calling excessive attention to itself.

I'm thrilled to hear this. This is high-quality imagination, composition, and arranging. And an effin' great recording.

Zowie Batman!!!!!!

WOW!!!! I've only heard a handful of professional sounding mixes on this forum, and I think your song just moved into that list. Really great job! It seems like you knew to put certain parts in... For example, the little upstroke guitar part panned to the left came in at the perfect time. Awesome

People not helpful? You need to get out more.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Plus people absolutely DID answer his question. They told him that the question wasn't answerable given the limited info they had to work with.
That's an answer ...... you may not like it but it's an answer and it's factual.
And no one was rude about it (possibly unusual but in this case NO ONE was rude).
Further ...... if members are arguing about the subject ....... that's LOTS of info for the OP to use if he's capable of reading thru them.

You just wanted someone to tell you how awesome it is ...... but they didn't because it's not. So now you're just gonna go with it even though "the bass is hot" 'cause no one on this particular board gave you props or step by step advice.
Heaven forbid you should take another week or two ...... possibly check with some other ears or *gasp* even respond to requests for more info by giving a bit more so people could help.
Almost makes you wish gerggles were here to give one of his patented 'friendly' responses.


And with the OP's grand total of 34 posts I'm impressed that he already knew how the thread would turn out and even better, since he's been on here 'for years under several different names' he would have know about the MP3 Clinic.

He didn't so he hasn't.

 

[Waltz Mastering]

since he's been on here 'for years under several different names' he would have know about the MP3 Clinic.

I actually think it's one of Glenn's aliases... Glenn, where are you man?

 

[Lt. Bob]

I actually think it's one of Glenn's aliases... Glenn, where are you man?

yeah, I kinda miss him but it's just as silly for him to leave because he didn't like a few newbie replies as it is for this guy to leave because he didn't get the answer he wanted.
At least we still have you ......... master!
Did you bring the whip?

 

[RAMI]

Honestly I wish I could end this thread because it turned out pretty much like I thought it would turn out, a big arguement between members with not alot of help toward the original question. I've been on here for years, under a couple of different names and it's always been that way. I honestly don't know how the forum has lasted so long.....

You're a whiny little baby. Go change your diapers. Why do you keep changing your name here??? Is it because you constantly make a complete jack-ass of yourself and have to start over under a new name every time??? I'm betting that's what it is.

This place is very helpful. You're just upset that you asked a stupid question that couldn't be answered. 50 posts later and you're still talking about mixing, not mastering.

Fuck, you're clueless. Go away....earth is full.

 

[Lt. Bob]

You're a whiny little baby. Go change your diapers. Why do you keep changing your name here??? Is it because you constantly make a complete jack-ass of yourself and have to start over under a new name every time??? I'm betting that's what it is.

This place is very helpful. You're just upset that you asked a stupid question that couldn't be answered. 50 posts later and you're still talking about mixing, not mastering.

Fuck, you're clueless. Go away....earth is full.

There ........ THATS what I'm talking about!


I can never find such eloquence.
Thank you RAMI.

 

[masteringhouse]

yeah, I kinda miss him but it's just as silly for him to leave because he didn't like a few newbie replies as it is for this guy to leave because he didn't get the answer he wanted.
At least we still have you ......... master!
Did you bring the whip?

Glen had a long history with some folks that kept bubbling up like a clogged toilet, not just a few newbie replies. I don't blame him for leaving or hopefully only taking a leave of absence.

Everyone has an opinion but some take a descenting one too personally. Yes, everyone is guilty to some degree but it seems like the ones who have been here the longest can temper personal issues better and hopefully turn it into an interesting debate or at least some form of entertainment.

With regard to this thread, I'm not clear on what the OP is looking for as far as a sonic goal. You seem to be happy with the mixes, so what did you intend to accomplish with mastering? You are lumping together a bunch of 70's bands that in my opinion sound nothing like each other and saying that you want your master to sound like them? As a big Who fan (also I've met Pete and John (RIP) and have done some live releases for them while at KB) I'm actually offended with the comparison to Boston let alone lumping all 70's bands into a category of some "generic sound".

I think that you need to be more precise with what it is that you want to accomplish, address issues in the mix that is preventing your material from going from average to great. And maybe listening to the advice of a few folks in the thread that are trying to help.

Ok, let the snob comments and flames begin. I'll be with Glen at the bar.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Glen had a long history with some folks that kept bubbling up like a clogged toilet, not just a few newbie replies. I don't blame him for leaving or hopefully only taking a leave of absence.

Everyone has an opinion but some take a descenting one too personally. Yes, everyone is guilty to some degree but it seems like the ones who have been here the longest can temper personal issues better and hopefully turn it into an interesting debate or at least some form of entertainment.

yeah that's true I suppose.
I've been here 10 years now .... holy crap! ...... and I used to get mad about stuff and now I don't ..... I KNOW I'm not mellower so I guess it just comes with spending time on boards and getting used to the 'words on a screen' thing.

I also hope Glenn comes back after a while.
Now ..... about that whip!

 

[dastrick]

........................ don't good mastering engineers say that ideally they want to do the least possible to make a recording sound good?

So would the ME still charge you for doing nothing?

 

[Lt. Bob]

So would the ME still charge you for doing nothing?

wow ...... that's a good question actually.

He would have to spend the time to sit there and carefully listen and decide so I guess so but it would probably still take less time than doing something to it.
I guess he'd charge by the hour?

 

[moresound]

I'll be with Glen at the bar.

Order me a Manhattan. I'll be there soon.



.

 

[Chibi Nappa]

So would the ME still charge you for doing nothing?

I would.

Something like that happened to me about a month ago. I work for the performing arts division of a large organization. We put on hundreds of shows a year in various venues on the property ranging from 5000 seats to 300 seats. Each show has 2 to 8 sound men working on the call.

Anyway, this show had three of us. It was a string quartet, a grand piano, and three french horns in a big ball room playing in various combinations.

You can see where this is going.

We heard them warming up on stage and decided we weren't even going to set up the PA. So the three of us did nothing. For the entire show. And it was the correct decision. And we got paid. Honestly, someone who didn't know as much as us would have only screwed things up trying to amplify something that really doesn't want to be amplified. It takes huge amounts of confidence to do nothing.

 

[masteringhouse]

Does an editor get paid for not changing every line of a book? Should he only get paid for the ones that he does change and not all that he has reviewed?

One of things that you are paying an ME for is his objective and experienced perspective on what needs to be done or not done. His opinion also has to be in line with the objectives of the client and their sonic goals. It can be a tough balancing act sometimes (e.g. ME thinks the master is too loud, client wants it louder).