How to tell an old friend that they suck...

  • Thread starter Thread starter studiowebx
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dragonworks said:
Don't say a word if you are wise.
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I totally agree with the Dragon, I have a similar thing with a friend who will never play well as long as his arse points downwards, but he loves it and lives for playing at his church. Some people are born with cloth ears and you can't change it, just roll with it and don't join in a group with him.
 
I second/third/fourth the opinion to keep it to yourself. If he was the kind of friend you could easily say "you suck" to, you wouldn't be asking for help.

In fact, don't just "keep it to yourself."

Drop it.

Forget about it. Leave your friend to his blissful ignorance and be happy with the fact that he's happy.

However, it sounds like *your* own personal problem. For example:

studiowebx said:
I think he knows but I hate that he does nothing about it.. OK if he cant sing but try to tune the guitar or get help.
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You say you *hate* that he does nothing about it. Why do you care? If he's having fun and is proud of his stuff, more power to him. In fact, the topic of this thread is "How to tell an old friend that they suck," not "how do you offer constructive advice." The first implies YOU are annoyed with your friend. The second implies you want to help him.


If he is genuinely asking for help. Listen to an entire song and give him ONE tip. If his guitar is out of tune, tell him, "It sounds like your guitar is out of tune." Simple.

If it is out of tune on the next song, tell him "It still sounds like your guitar is out of tune."

If it is the fact that you are annoyed with his songs, get an attitude adjustment.

Simple.
 
Let me handle this-Just pass this on to him.

You suck!! :)
 
Lopp said:
I second/third/fourth the opinion to keep it to yourself. If he was the kind of friend you could easily say "you suck" to, you wouldn't be asking for help.

In fact, don't just "keep it to yourself."

Drop it.

Forget about it. Leave your friend to his blissful ignorance and be happy with the fact that he's happy.

However, it sounds like *your* own personal problem. For example:



You say you *hate* that he does nothing about it. Why do you care? If he's having fun and is proud of his stuff, more power to him. In fact, the topic of this thread is "How to tell an old friend that they suck," not "how do you offer constructive advice." The first implies YOU are annoyed with your friend. The second implies you want to help him.


If he is genuinely asking for help. Listen to an entire song and give him ONE tip. If his guitar is out of tune, tell him, "It sounds like your guitar is out of tune." Simple.

If it is out of tune on the next song, tell him "It still sounds like your guitar is out of tune."

If it is the fact that you are annoyed with his songs, get an attitude adjustment.

Simple.
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Well said Lopp
Couldn't have said it better myself






I still want your woman!!!!!!!!! :D
 
I've got plenty of friends like this. Great people...but not tempo awareness, horrible tuning, etc. And they all want to record and album and think it's going to be awesome. At some point you just got to tell him man.
 
I have a friend like this, his music is very original and fun to listen to but one of the first things I blurted out after listening to his music the first time was "Sounds like you are out of tune" to which he replied "I don't even know how to tune" then I said "Oh, well in that case it sounds great!".
 
Send him over to jam with me. I have a reputation of being an asshole and don't mind telling people if they suck. I'm a guitarist, not a diplomat.
In reality, I was in and out of bands for years before I got into recording. I didn't realize how bad my timing was untill I started laying down tracks, recording requires a far greater degree of precision than jamming around or even playing live. The more I record, the pickier I get.
There are lots of musicians who are pretty good at live gigs where tempos and volumes rise and fall with the mood of the audience (this is difficult to master also) but lack the exactness required in the studio.
Point this out to your friend, if he is any good at all he will realize for himself and you wont have to tell him.

Just a comment from the "Been There, Done That," gallery
 
My $.02

You're being asked. You have a duty to tell him the truth.

He has to be in tune. It's simple. You just tune your damn guitar. He has to work on developing better timing. This takes practice and attention to detail.

Help him. Show him. Keep after him. If not for yourself, do it for the rest of the people on the planet.

Either that or he should stop asking you what you think. I don't get what kind of a friendship you have where you are afraid of hurting his feelings and being honest.

He's not your wife and he's not asking if the dress makes him look fat.
 
I think the key word here is "Friend". He seems to be asking for advice and you're in the business. You should probably offer some sort of real reply.

Being diplomatic is probably a good thing here. It sounds like timing and tune are key factors. One could easily start with outlining the things that make recordings good. Things like mix, tone and song are easy factors. Spending some time talking about these might set the stage for the next two, pitch and timing.

Then discussing the fact that a recording engineer hears things more clearly than in a live setup might be a good thing. Live players tend to hear less as there is lots of volume and things going on. Listening to a recorded piece on monitors or headphones makes the problems and mistakes come out clearly.

As others have said, being honest is also a good thing. Point out that there are some pitch and timing issues at hand. One might suggest using a small recorder at home, along with a click track, as a way to practice on getting both better. That way you leave things on an honest appraisal footing, but with a constructive approach for possible improvement.

Ed
 
studiowebx said:
Yea I always share my stuff with him... I am not the most creative person in the world but I can keep time and stay in tune...

I think he knows but I hate that he does nothing about it.. OK if he cant sing but try to tune the guitar or get help.
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I meant the stuff you record of him. Does he listen to the recordings of himself? No matter how good I sound I still can't stand listening to myself so I'd think that if he really is as bad as you say that he'd have to notice it if he heard it played back to him. If he sits there listening to himself sound like shit and still goes, "Oh, yeah. I sound great," than he's either tone deaf or he's got some sort of severe mental problems. Is he the kind of guy who can't make fun of himself? Does he think that everything he does, music or otherwise, is always awesome?
The other possibility is that he sounds great and you're the one who's tone deaf(or worse). You never know.
 
studiowebx said:
How do you tell an old friend that they suck and there is no hope for them?
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Post about him on an internet forum and hope he reads it?
 
dirtythermos said:
Post about him on an internet forum and hope he reads it?
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you know, thats not a bad idea, only don't let him know that it was you, or that its about him...
seriously, this gave me an awesome idea, tell him to read that and ask him what he thinks the guy (thats really you) should do about it then just use his suggestion on him. and if he thinks its funny and that the guy should tell his friend that he sucks, then wont that ever blow up in his face. :D
 
Dude, quite the pussyfooting! Just tell him. Just say "look I think you have many issues you need to work on"


You say he's doing it just for fun? Fine, but why did he drop so much money into the project and gear?

thats why everything sucks now. Back in my mom's day, you would have had tomatoes and rocks thrown at you if you sucked. Now when you suck, everyone feels bad for you and pats you on the back
 
about the guitar tuning.....

are you sure his guitar just doesn't have bad intonation?

check the 12th fret harmonic with the 12th fret note with a tuner.

he could be "in tune" but not in tune...ya know? then that ruins everything--it's all downhill from there
 
studiowebx said:
Everything he does is so damn out of tune and out of time. His guitars and vocals are terrible! He can't keep time or sing at all but insists on laying down the vocals. I know he is doing it for fun but he always asks me how it he is doing and I can never tell him the truth..
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hey!!!! ... dont stop him ... look how famous "good ol' Neil" got ... :D

maybe the problem is not him being out of tune/time, but you following different standards.

If he listens his own recordings and likes it ... thats OK!!!!!!!
 
I like it!

thats why everything sucks now. Back in my mom's day, you would have had tomatoes and rocks thrown at you if you sucked. Now when you suck, everyone feels bad for you and pats you on the back
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That's it!
 
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