How to tell an old friend that they suck...

[studiowebx]

How do you tell an old friend that they suck and there is no hope for them?

I have a friend that I have had for years. We met in college and had the guitar thing in common.. Well I moved more into recording over the years and he moved more into playing out..

Anyway, recently he decided to get into recording and he is getting surprisingly good sound from his recording gear BUT!!!!

Everything he does is so damn out of tune and out of time. His guitars and vocals are terrible! He can't keep time or sing at all but insists on laying down the vocals. I know he is doing it for fun but he always asks me how it he is doing and I can never tell him the truth..

He is so excited about his gear and is constantly asking what he can do to make this or that better or how to do this or that. But I can't bear to tell him that he is giving people seizures with his out of tuneness.

He claims to use a tuner during every take and that makes it worse because now I wouldn’t even know how to fix his problem.

Should I just forget about it and just give pointers on his equipment and recording?
Should I lay it all out and tell him what is really wrong..

 

[gvarko]

Well..

Unless your friend plans on releasing a demo to radio stations I wouldn't worry much. Chances are he will record stuff for his own enjoyment, just like the rest of us.

Why go and ruin that for him....

 

[AGCurry]

I guess it really boils down to how strong your friendship is.

Music has its own truth. I've always had a tendency to be pretty honest about it with those I love/respect. I can look back over my musical career and see that the times where I made the most progress followed someone telling me I was deficient in my skills. If a person is solid, he can take criticism and come out better for it.

Yes, you may hurt his feelings. And there is no one right answer, as it depends on him and on the way you present your opinions. You really have to let your heart and mind tell you what to do...

 

[corban]

Tuners are from the devil. If you don't use your ear in conjunction with a tuner, you can very easily come up with a very out of tune "tuned" guitar.

 

[jalbert]

Does he listen to the stuff you record? Just set him loose and then turn up the playback real loud. If he's really as bad as you say and that doesn't change his attitude than I'd assume that he knows and he's just having a good time. It is fun to poke fun at yourself though, so it's too bad if he can't enjoy sounding like crap. God knows I do.

 

[ullimike]

Send his tunes to garageband.com--Have them rate it

i think a good idea is to have him enter his songs into Garageband.com where listeners give feedback on tunes that are submitted. It is great feedback that will help your friend w/o hurting your friendship. It's a win-win!

 

[studiowebx]

Does he listen to the stuff you record? Just set him loose and then turn up the playback real loud. If he's really as bad as you say and that doesn't change his attitude than I'd assume that he knows and he's just having a good time. It is fun to poke fun at yourself though, so it's too bad if he can't enjoy sounding like crap. God knows I do.

Yea I always share my stuff with him... I am not the most creative person in the world but I can keep time and stay in tune...

I think he knows but I hate that he does nothing about it.. OK if he cant sing but try to tune the guitar or get help.

 

[studiowebx]

i think a good idea is to have him enter his songs into Garageband.com where listeners give feedback on tunes that are submitted. It is great feedback that will help your friend w/o hurting your friendship. It's a win-win!

You know that is an EXCELLENT idea! I don't know why I didn't think of that. That could help the both of us actually... DANG ... Good idea.

 

[onlyfingers]

The suggestion of submitting the recordings to Garageband.com may give him negative feedback if it's called for. But wouldn't a good friend be able to deliver "bad" news without wrecking the friendship?

But maybe it's not hopeless. A lot of us who have plinked around in our bedrooms on the guitar may be able to get all five strings to sound on a double-barre chord, but haven't got any performance skills, even when the performance is for the recorder.

Is the timing problem terminal? I had no idea how far my timing was off until I began playing with others. Even today, if I try to play to a metronome, I am sunk. If I were going to record something and I needed to be in time, I would put headphones on and play along to a track with known good timing. When your friend asks you to listen to one of his creations, ask him what he's doing for timing, and tell him what works for you. Unless he is thick as a brick, he will begin to listen more closely at timing, will see a problem, and begin looking for an answer.

You may want to approach the issue from a perspective of looking for ways to improve the result. ("Sounds great. It's almost there. Here and there you have to get your chords and voice in synch." or "I like this song, and you've mastered the guitar part. But the tune goes places your voice doesn't always want to go. Have you though of playing it in a different key?")

I read in the liner notes to "Too Much Fun" (Commander Cody Best of..) that the Commander got the singing job by default, and that he uses the spoken-voice style (think Hot Rod Lincoln) because he can't sing. Maybe you can direct your friend to songs that are within his vocal range.

Good luck. It sounds like you recognize the responsibilities that come along with friendship. What you're trying to do isn't easy. I hope your friend has an ego strong enough to take what's coming his way….

 

[studiowebx]

I guess the biggest problem is that I dont know how to help. That is why the garageband thing or even the clinic here would be a better choice..

I can go over on a saturday and we will jam a bit and I will tune his guitar and everything sounds ok. But then a week later he will record something and send me a mp3 and the damn guitar is back to shit..

He doesn't have an ear for this I suppose.. He just can't hear how bad out it really is. If I don't tune the guitar for him it is imposible to jam with him.

I have been trained through out college and been in ensembles that have gone #1 in state and I have developed an ear over my time. But I am a terrible teacher. I put down a song and (to me) it is in tune and on time and he things WOW! How did you do that?

I just don't know how to explain to him how to fix his problems.

You know he has spent a ton of money on his recording set up. And another ton on local tech's to set up his guitar.. I know the tech's do a good job. I just wish he would quit twisting knobs.. LOL

 

[ibanezrocks]

Start with the biggest problem, and confront him on that, so if it's timing then when he asks you how it is say the timing could use a little work, or something like that. Just make the problem sound smaller than it actually is so that hes not insulted but at the same time he'll probably work on it, and hopefully improve it enough to realize it sounds better and you were right.

 

[mrface2112]

maybe you could buy him a metronome for christmas? or a cheap, used drum machine so he can learn to play to a click? there's only one way to work on timing, and that's practicing.....and as my soccer coach used to say, practice doesn't make perfect--*perfect* practice make perfect.

not everyone is born with a sense of time.....some folks need to practice at it.


cheers,
wade

 

[ido1957]

If you tell him the truth, you risk the friendship becoming less than what it is now - he may take it as criticism.

Making music is a VERY personal thing and this may be a big thing to him. I wouldn't want to rain on what may be the only parade he is in.

Although he may be substituting gear and equiment for talent, at least he has a hobby.

And I'm sure he's looking to you (as his friend) for morale support not criticism.

Use compassion where you can and you will have a good friend for life.

- just don't ask him to join any bands you are in.....

 

[dragonworks]

Don't say a word if you are wise.

 

[true-eurt]

Ditto!!!...........

 

[ozraves]

Don't say anything.

I lost a good friend who is an incredible songwriter by being truthful about his singing. Just let it slide or get ready to lose a friend.

 

[drstawl]

I'd go ahead and tell him what is wrong with his playing.

Even the highest wizard on any instrument had to start somewhere.

Maybe it is *you* who are making deluded assumptions that there is "no hope" that this guy will ever get his shit together? Or not. Who knows?

People get their chops at different rates and it does take some effort to maintain even the level of chops one has thus far attained.

You may be right about him never reaching your vision of someone that plays music but *that* is a conclusion better left to fate.

 

[dragonworks]

I would like to take this opportunity to tell the doc, doc you suck.

Never look a gift horse in the mouth.

 

[juststartingout]

How to tell an old friend that they suck...

That's easy, just say, 'Dude, you suck'.

I have a good friend who can't even play 12 bar blues. He plays 10.5 to 13 bar blues. I have been trying to fix it for the past 2 years, but he just doesn't get it. He can play some lead and doesn't sound too bad, but he just can't play a beat. Oh, he has been playing for 20 years or so. Now I just started taking up drums this past 6 months and it kind of makes it hard to jam with him, but he has fun and I have fun and that's all that counts.

So, if he asks, just be truthful with him, help him out and just have fun.

 

[poltergeist]

Don't say a word if you are wise.

I second that
Well, third it, after True