How to setup my 8 track recorder with a 16/4 mixer ?

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gilwe

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I got a Fostex 8 track recorder which has got 8 input and 8 output connections.
I'm trying to set it up with my Yamaha 16 channels / 4 groups mixer.

At first I connected the 8 outputs of the recorder to the
Hi inputs of the 9-16 channels on the mixer. This is for playback.

Now, I want to use the 1-8 mixer channels as inputs to the recorder so I can record up to 8 tracks simultaniously.

I thought of using the input socket of each of the 1-8 channels for the
input source and the "insert" socket to drive out the signal directly
to the recorder, with the ability of controlling volume of the source
signals and with no EQ interfering.

Than I realized that when a (TRS) plug is inserten to the "insert"
socket, the other Hi-input socket is switched (you cannot hear the source
in the mix), so, I cannot really use them both at the same time !

This is while the source input does gets out through the "insert" output connector
but it actaully passes the controls (i.e. volume and EQ doesn't responed and the source
signal goes *directly* out to the recorder with no volume control. The "Gain"
control and the 20db PAD DOES effect the signal by the way).

What a mess.

Can someone suggest me of how to set these to two pieces of equipment up
so I can mix up the 8 track outs and also use the mixer to control 8 inputs that
will go to the mixer for recording but with the ability to control their volume,
and all at the same time ?

I know this is long and I will appreciate any help.
Maybe a reference to a guide or an article.

Or should I get a studio mixer instead ...?

Thanks.
 
That's normal, you want the insert to be able to work on signals that come from either the XLR or the Line in.

There are a couple ways to do what you want, some 4 bus boards actually have 8 sub out connectors so that a signal sent to sub group 1 will go to outputs 1 and 5, 2 goes to 2 and 6 etc. this way you can just connect the 8 sub outs to the 8 inputs of the fostex, to send something to a track simply assign it to the appropriate sub and then record enable the correct track. This way you can only record 4 tracks at a time, but you can use EQ, lowcut and FX etc to tape if you want to.

The other way is to 'steal' from the inserts, simply take an unbalanced cable and plug it into the insert halfway, up to the first click, this should allow you to send signal to the recorder without interrupting the signal to the board. If you want to plug the cable all the way in you have to make special cables which have the tip and ring of a stereo jack connected together on one end and a mono connector on the other.

Hope I wasn't too confusing.

Good Luck. :)
 
Let's see if I got you right ....

In the second way you describe, the insert cable will have a TRS connector on one side, of which the tip and ring "tounges" are soldered into a single unit which is connected to the "live" wire of the cable. On the other side of the cable there will be an RCA of which the tip is connected to the "live" wire (that is soldered to the tip and ring connectors of the TRS). The ground on the TRS will of course go to the ground of the RCA.

Is this right ?

In this kind of set-up will I be able to control the volume of source signal (that comes in the Line in jack) ?

Will shorting the In and Out insert circuits be electronically safe ?

Thanks.
 
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I'm no electrical engineer, but from what I understand that is how TRS inserts work, when no cable is inserted the tip and ring connectors inside the jack touch and send the signal straight through, when an insert jack is inserted the connection is broken and the signal is sent out on one connection and returns on the other.

The Trim/input knob will control the level which goes to tape, and the channel fader will work as usual.

Good Luck :)
 
Interesting.... Tried this and the volume knob doesn't effect the signal. You can hear the souce in the mixing but the sounce still goes directly to the recorder with no volume changes...
 
You're saying the Gain knob and the 20db pad no longer affect the level to going to the recorder?
 
Signal flow signal flow signal flow
Buy a patchbay and be creative about using a 4 buss desk. The last thing I want to piss me off is bumping the console while tracking with a cable NOT PROPERLY SEATED. I then have to stop the best lead break the guitarist has done on this song, that has taken 6 hrs. to get 16 bars of music. GIVE ME A BREAK! The use of an inset pt as you describe only works on american design desks with a TRS connetion. Make better use like insert a compressor or eq.
 
Using the insert for output and the Line in for input,
I can notice that the 20db pad and Gain DOES respond.
This is actually what I needed, but does the Gain control
gives any other change to the signal colour other than just making it louder or quiter (I mean does it effect the actual
sound or just act like a volume control) ?
 
In theory it just acts like a volume control and it should behave like one over most of it's range, but a lot depends on the design of the preamp, different pre's 'crap out' in different ways when you push them too hard.
 
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